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post #31 of 45 (permalink) Old Jul 22nd, 2019, 11:30 am
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I had discussion with someone on another forum, about rare vs just not popular. He was stating that a particular bike that was only made for a few years was considered rare. I told him not really, it just didn't sell well when produced so that is why they stopped making them. In his mind that made it rare and worth more than any reasonable person would pay. I just told him it is still the same unpopular bike and not worth double because it was only made for a couple years. People like to throw that word rare around......

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Originally Posted by surffly View Post
I think some might want to set away from a few YouTube channels and take off the tin foil hats......

There is not so much an issue with people not wanting to ride motorcycles as much as the issue is the manufactures are not making a lot of appealing products.
Sure the latest and greatest 200+hp monster is appealing, but is it really that much more appealing then a 200+hp monster bike that is years old? Or the even cheaper 180+hp versions of the same bike 10 years ago?
There really has not been much "improvement" in long time. Sure electronics make the bikes more usable and safer, but that feeling in your gut when you twist the throttle is not that much different. So why bother buying new?
The manufactures have also shot themselves in the foot by failing to market their more interesting options in better ways.
Look at the Vitpilien (spelling?) husky 701. EPIC specs and a really good/fun street bike. They packaged it in a really appealing shape.....but want $2000 more then the same spec bike from KTM....WHY?!?!?!?
It really turns people off.
Then there is the hipster bait marketing of the Ducati Scrambler.....did Ducati not know that the Hipster movement is over?
FAIL.
Dont even get me started on the new supersports....

I guess my point is that the move for most is to just buy used. No real point in spending the money on new.

People are spending money in the ADV sector for sure.

But back to the sport classic.
It really did not have very appealing specs, the bike is basically an old monster with nicer to look at body work.
Makes sense that as tastes change, so does the value.
Bike was not made to be limited production, they just didnt sell well
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post #32 of 45 (permalink) Old Jul 22nd, 2019, 11:53 am
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Originally Posted by MK212MX View Post
I had discussion with someone on another forum, about rare vs just not popular. He was stating that a particular bike that was only made for a few years was considered rare. I told him not really, it just didn't sell well when produced so that is why they stopped making them. In his mind that made it rare and worth more than any reasonable person would pay. I just told him it is still the same unpopular bike and not worth double because it was only made for a couple years. People like to throw that word rare around......
While true in some cases and perhaps in this one, there are a number of cases where unpopular bikes become collectable, notably the 888 and early year BMW R75 among many others. The 888 was around for 2-3 years and didn't sell, mainly because of 916 rumors. Many 888's were sent back to Italy and the frames that Ducati had produced were used for the Monster. The R75 came out in '71 with chrome side panels on the tank and the "faithful" hated the thing as being to garish - essentially not boring enough for them. Both of these bikes were unpopular and didn't sell in the years they were available and are now collectable.

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post #33 of 45 (permalink) Old Jul 22nd, 2019, 1:57 pm
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While true in some cases and perhaps in this one, there are a number of cases where unpopular bikes become collectable, notably the 888 and early year BMW R75 among many others. The 888 was around for 2-3 years and didn't sell, mainly because of 916 rumors. Many 888's were sent back to Italy and the frames that Ducati had produced were used for the Monster. The R75 came out in '71 with chrome side panels on the tank and the "faithful" hated the thing as being to garish - essentially not boring enough for them. Both of these bikes were unpopular and didn't sell in the years they were available and are now collectable.
It is true that some things don't sell well in period, but as time marches on they become appreciated more.
Those tend to fall into the "ahead of their time" category.
I think that is not the normal outcome though.

The other thing to deal with in regards to rare, is the actual size of the market.

When Ferrari makes 300 of some special car, but there are 1,000 people in the world with the ability to buy it.....the prices stay strong.
It is both rare, and something with a demand.

Morgan does not make a tone of cars each year, but there really isn't a huge demand for them. So prices do not go up at all.
They are rare, but supply/demand is about equal.

Same thing holds true in the "vintage" motorcycles.
I have owned some very rare bikes, but some have been so special and rare that there are less people that care about them then bikes built.
So for that it was rare, but demand was not there.

Most limited production bikes still depreciate as they end up just being seen as "used" for a while.
That is what always made me wonder about sport classics.
They were not rare.
They didnt have demand when new.
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post #34 of 45 (permalink) Old Jul 22nd, 2019, 5:27 pm
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Originally Posted by MK212MX View Post
I had discussion with someone on another forum, about rare vs just not popular. He was stating that a particular bike that was only made for a few years was considered rare. I told him not really, it just didn't sell well when produced so that is why they stopped making them. In his mind that made it rare and worth more than any reasonable person would pay. I just told him it is still the same unpopular bike and not worth double because it was only made for a couple years. People like to throw that word rare around......
Hahah, that is so true. For the most part, there is no such thing as rare. There is only unpopular, and low production as a result. As a frequent craigslist comber, I always have to laugh when I see a low production bike that nobody wants declared as "rare" and listed as a selling point.

Sure there's a few instances where a certain item has a production run sold out in advance with intentionally no other production run done. "Artificial scarcity" I think that's called as a marketing technique. That counts as rare. But if a bike had EVER sat on a showroom floor waiting for a buyer, that's not one of those special rare items.
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post #35 of 45 (permalink) Old Jul 23rd, 2019, 7:14 am
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I have found that a lot of people dont even know what a sport classic or GT is, so feel its only the people that know about them want one, a few bikes advertised but not sold, i have been watching severel GT's, including mine, so apart from cheap ones i dont think they are moving
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post #36 of 45 (permalink) Old Jul 23rd, 2019, 7:20 am
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Originally Posted by Davehales View Post
I have found that a lot of people dont even know what a sport classic or GT is, so feel its only the people that know about them want one, a few bikes advertised but not sold, i have been watching severel GT's, including mine, so apart from cheap ones i dont think they are moving
That makes total sense right now.
As pointed out there are MANY options for bikes that give the same riding experience and aesthetic for the same (if not much less) money.
These other options generally come on a newer and more modern bike.

I think many see the sport classic as more of a style exercise on a Monster at this point, not a really unique bike.


*I tried to buy a left over 2006 in 2009.
Dealer messed me around and it actually kept me away from Ducatis for almost 10 years when I moved away from that dealer.
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post #37 of 45 (permalink) Old Jul 23rd, 2019, 9:22 am
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I think many see the sport classic as more of a style exercise on a Monster at this point, not a really unique bike.
This would have been O.K. (apart from the goofy rear suspension changes) if it had been done right.

Ducati shot itself in the foot I feel, when they got too far away from the original design.

The GT Classic was made to be sold in higher numbers at a lower price, and had cheaper components as a result. This is all well and good, but the bike was such a cobby looking vehicle when you walked up to it that it turned many potential buyers off. Retro bikes with the proper proportions sell OK, even when equipped with cheaper suspension pieces. Ducati couldn't sell enough GTs to help amortize the rest of the line as a result.

Jut my opinion, so don't get too wrapped around the axle about it. But compare the 2005 GT to a '75 750 GT...sleeker lines on the older bike.





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post #38 of 45 (permalink) Old Jul 23rd, 2019, 10:29 am
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This would have been O.K. (apart from the goofy rear suspension changes) if it had been done right.

Ducati shot itself in the foot I feel, when they got too far away from the original design.

The GT Classic was made to be sold in higher numbers at a lower price, and had cheaper components as a result. This is all well and good, but the bike was such a cobby looking vehicle when you walked up to it that it turned many potential buyers off. Retro bikes with the proper proportions sell OK, even when equipped with cheaper suspension pieces. Ducati couldn't sell enough GTs to help amortize the rest of the line as a result.

Jut my opinion, so don't get too wrapped around the axle about it. But compare the 2005 GT to a '75 750 GT...sleeker lines on the older bike.




Great comparo - I have often wondered how Ducati could have screwed up the styling of the new bike so badly. As these pics show, the engine is essentially the same as is the frame. Would it have really taken that much more effort to do it right?

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post #39 of 45 (permalink) Old Jul 24th, 2019, 12:59 am
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Great comparo - I have often wondered how Ducati could have screwed up the styling of the new bike so badly. As these pics show, the engine is essentially the same as is the frame. Would it have really taken that much more effort to do it right?
I don't know why you guys bashing on the GT, its a great looking bike and I would choose it over the old school one any day. Yes, in its stock form it looks kinda cheapo and not as slick, same could be said with a lot of bone stock bikes straight from the factory. But with a few tasteful mods I think it has a lot of potential.

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post #40 of 45 (permalink) Old Jul 24th, 2019, 7:43 am
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I don't know why you guys bashing on the GT, its a great looking bike and I would choose it over the old school one any day. Yes, in its stock form it looks kinda cheapo and not as slick, same could be said with a lot of bone stock bikes straight from the factory. But with a few tasteful mods I think it has a lot of potential.
They are not bad bikes (at a price)
Just at this point they are almost 15 years old, and the market has a tone of other good options.
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