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Fork swap 95 900ss/cr

13K views 70 replies 19 participants last post by  Dukerdr 
#1 ·
What is the best bang for the buck in an adjustable set-up?
 
#2 ·
I’m going to guess it’s a pair of SP forks with GSXR internals and the correct straight rate springs. I bought the SP forks and used GSXR forks on eBay, then a pair of RaceTech springs and seals, total cost about $400. You can then use your stock wheel , axle, and speedo drive, or convert to the later axle and drive for little extra. Most of the other fork conversions leave you in an expensive situation with regard to the wheel, brakes, axle, and speedo drive. So, while you can buy Superbike forks reasonably, the rest of the conversion is expensive .
 
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#5 ·
I'd second this suggestion as this is what I had on my SS. I started off with the Showa forks as my bike was an SP to begin with, but there is a design defect which makes it so the rebound damping and compression damping circuits cannot operate independently. I picked up a beat up set of GSXR600 forks off eBay for $60, a pair of RaceTech springs correct for my weight from a forum member here for $100 or so, the whole process was done in a day and I'm not known for my speed as a mechanic. I did a write-up with some pictures on how I did it in the SS forum.
 
#4 ·
The classifieds here, or on the Monster forums. Ebay of course. Check with Ed Milich at guzzipower.com, or with "Used Ducati Parts" on Facebook. I've been having increasingly good luck finding parts that people are listing for sale in the various Facebook groups as well.
 
#9 ·
FWIW, I found the frankenforks with GSXR internals to be an improvement over the stock parts, mainly because I could quickly and easily adjust the damping. It also seemed to me that the forks were able to respond to bumps quicker resulting in better traction overall. But the biggest difference I made to my suspension was actually the Racetech springs. Night and day better than the stock progressive OEM springs. Changing the ancient fork oil may have had an effect as well, but the springs got rid of the big front-end dive under hard braking as the progressive springs loaded up and compressed through the soft portion of the travel range. YMMV.
 
#11 · (Edited)
To avoid having to deal with axle / wheel issues you would need to use fork tubes that accommodate your current axle. I sent my Showa forks to Rick at Cogent Dynamics and he bebuilt them with internals of his own manufacture and sprung them properly for my weight and use. It wasn't the cheapest solution, but all I had to do was remove, ship, reinstall the forks; and the suspension now works great. I also had him rebuild my Showa rear shock with better internals and an adjustable length shaft. Since you are in MD as opposed to my California location, shipping should be much cheaper. I did this a number of years ago. You could contact him if you're interested in what options he has available now.
 
#12 ·
A definite step up, from everything I’ve read. Depends how far you want to go and how much you want to spend. They are also a good source for parts and advice if you’re doing your own work .
 
#15 ·
Sometimes I get in over my head. I didn’t know squat about upside down forks, or adjustable forks. I just followed the thread and it was a good learning experience. At the time I didn’t have the money to buy an expensive bike, hence the beat up 900CR. A piece at a time I’ve upgraded beyond SP equipment. I’m really happy with the results and the fact that I did it all myself. Now it’s apart and being cleaned up, along with a few more upgrades and components being refreshed.
 
#17 ·
Just remember it is a 25 + year old motorcycle. It will never handle like a new modern motorcycle. Your best bang for the $ is race tech springs for you weight and some gold valves and the correct wt oil.
Lighter Wheels will make the most difference in handling and also don't forget the crappy bolts holding the engine to the frame...Nichols engine bolts are the way to go and noticeably improve handling.

I Please don't use a 180 rear tire as that only slows down the side to side transition a 160 is more than enough.
MY .02
 
#24 ·
...Your best bang for the $ is race tech springs for you weight and some gold valves and the correct wt oil.
Racetech doesn't seem to offer Gold Emulators for the 900CR forks. Fork springs, yes. Gold Emulators, no.

Please don't use a 180 rear tire as that only slows down the side to side transition a 160 is more than enough.
Agreed! The 160 is plenty of rubber unless the bike is a full on racer. The 160 will also create more nimble handling and more responsive switchback performance, as well as better low speed/parking lot handling. The 160 also offers less rotational weight and less unsprung weight as well!! Combined with a lower profile front tire (which will decrease trail) the bike can be made to ~feel~ lighter and ~feel~ more responsive when it comes to switchback performance. Not to mention less rotational weight and less unsprung weight up front.

I've got a '95 900SS CR myself Mark. Believe me,been there-done that with the non adjustable 41mm Showa forks that came standard on these bikes. ....

Racetech springs and gold valves were miles better than stock but since the springs and gold valves were inside the fork cartridges the only way to make any adjustments was to remove the fork cartridges,make your adjustments,and reinstall them. What an effing royal pain in the ass that was to do.
Again, Racetech doesn't seem to offer a single thing for the non-adjustable CR forks other than oil and springs. No "Gold Valves" (actually this should read "Gold Emulators") are available for the 1996 900CR stock forks. None that I can locate, at least.

The simplest way to upgrade the stock non adjustable 41mm Showa forks that I've found is to install a set of Andreani fully adjustable fork cartridges. These fork cartridges are designed to fit your stock forks and bolt right in.

Both fork cartridges are preload adjustable,the right fork cartridge handles all the rebound,and the left fork cartridge handles all the compression. All adjusters are external and easy to use.

Not the cheapest option granted Mark,but no need for new wheels,brakes,axles,oversize bearings yada yada yada....

Simply remove your forks,remove and $hit-can the stock non adjustable fork cartridges,bolt in the Andreani fork cartridges,fill with oil,install the forks,make your adjustments,and ride off into the sunset. Bada-Boom! It's that simple.

Installed a set of these Andreani's in the stock Showa forks on my '03 VFR800. With the right tools on hand it was so easy to do it was ridiculous.

Click me Mark.>>>https://www.ebay.com/itm/Andreani-A...444828?hash=item213410eb5c:g:acgAAOSwVtZaH91Z
I cannot seem to verify that these cartridges will fit the non-adjustable CR forks. That eBay link is vague, it only says "41mm Showa forks for '95 Ducati 900SS". There is no mention of "non adjustable" or "CR" forks in the ad. I also went to the Andreani web site and put in my year/model ('96 900CR) and the only thing they seem to offer is a rear shock for it.


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#18 ·
I've got a '95 900SS CR myself Mark. Believe me,been there-done that with the non adjustable 41mm Showa forks that came standard on these bikes. Suspension wears as it gets older,which means it's not a set and forget kinda thing,you have to make adjustments to account for that wear.

Racetech springs and gold valves were miles better than stock but since the springs and gold valves were inside the fork cartridges the only way to make any adjustments was to remove the fork cartridges,make your adjustments,and reinstall them. What an effing royal pain in the ass that was to do.

Next up was the fully adjustable SP forks. They turned out to be a total waste of time as the rebound adjuster is engineered incorrectly. Back it off just a coupla clicks and it bypasses the compression circuit rendering the forks completely useless.

Gixxer adjustable fork cartridges are cool and all but from what I've read it sounds like a lot of work dickin' around to make them work with your stock forks.

The simplest way to upgrade the stock non adjustable 41mm Showa forks that I've found is to install a set of Andreani fully adjustable fork cartridges. These fork cartridges are designed to fit your stock forks and bolt right in.
Both fork cartridges are preload adjustable,the right fork cartridge handles all the rebound,and the left fork cartridge handles all the compression. All adjusters are external and easy to use.

Not the cheapest option granted Mark,but no need for new wheels,brakes,axles,oversize bearings yada yada yada....

Simply remove your forks,remove and $hit-can the stock non adjustable fork cartridges,bolt in the Andreani fork cartridges,fill with oil,install the forks,make your adjustments,and ride off into the sunset. Bada-Boom! It's that simple.

Installed a set of these Andreani's in the stock Showa forks on my '03 VFR800. With the right tools on hand it was so easy to do it was ridiculous.

Click me Mark.>>>https://www.ebay.com/itm/Andreani-A...444828?hash=item213410eb5c:g:acgAAOSwVtZaH91Z
 

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#19 ·
Gixxer adjustable fork cartridges are cool and all but from what I've read it sounds like a lot of work dickin' around to make them work with your stock forks.
It's an afternoon's work if you take it slow, no special tools or equipment required. With GSXR cartridges and racetech springs, the forks are transformed, probably on par with the aftermarket cartridges you have. $150-200 worth of parts if you already have the SP forks, double that if you don't, gets you a nice set of fully adjustable, reasonably compliant forks. The mod is not as bad as you make it sound. Out of curiosity how much did your cartridges cost?
 
#29 ·
Step one.
What forks do you have?

CR forks are NOT the answer as both marzzocci and showa made non-adjustable forks for the CR. You can tell them apart by the nut size on the cap or the showa logo on the lower casting.

There IS a race tech GOLD VALVE for the showa forks, there is NO valving for the Marzzocci due to the construction of the cartridge tube. The Showas can be disassembled and re-built , due to how the marzzocci cartridge tubes are assembled you can not re-assemble then if you take them apart. FYI: a emulator is for a damper rodfork NOT a cartridge fork. The Marzzocci M1R forks on the Paso 907 and 1990 851 were the last to use a damper rod fork.

Again the gold valve is high speed damping (shaft not vehicle speed) so if you do not have sharp edge bumps that will spike the shaft speed you do not need them probably. A set of Marzzocci forks with proper oil weight , straight rate springs (I use race tech) and oil height work just fine for 90% of riders. Work with someone who can set you up and get you sprung in the proper range and you will probably be happy. As always inspect the Marzzocci forks for chrome wear and if good you have something better than most oem adjustables out of the box.
 
#30 ·
Step one.
What forks do you have?

CR forks are NOT the answer as both marzzocci and showa made non-adjustable forks for the CR. You can tell them apart by the nut size on the cap or the showa logo on the lower casting.
Can you elaborate on the nut size/brand association? Which size indicate Marzzocci, which size indicate Showa?

There IS a race tech GOLD VALVE for the showa forks, there is NO valving for the Marzzocci due to the construction of the cartridge tube. The Showas can be disassembled and re-built , due to how the marzzocci cartridge tubes are assembled you can not re-assemble then if you take them apart.
FYI: a emulator is for a damper rodfork NOT a cartridge fork. The Marzzocci M1R forks on the Paso 907 and 1990 851 were the last to use a damper rod fork.
Correct, my mistake. One of many. Be prepared to witness more as time goes by.

Again the gold valve is high speed damping (shaft not vehicle speed) so if you do not have sharp edge bumps that will spike the shaft speed you do not need them probably. A set of Marzzocci forks with proper oil weight , straight rate springs (I use race tech) and oil height work just fine for 90% of riders.
Agreed .. 100%.

Work with someone who can set you up and get you sprung in the proper range and you will probably be happy. As always inspect the Marzzocci forks for chrome wear and if good you have something better than most oem adjustables out of the box.
Sage advice.


.... but but but .... bling! ... fully adjustables get me more attention at the burger stand on Saturday nights ... and the parking lot at bike races ...
:crying:

:laugh:

:wink2:

Ok, so if I got it right ... 900CR Showas can be rebuilt/revalved (look for Showa logo on the fork lowers).

900CR Marzzoccis cannot be revalved but can at least be resealed if needed (no logo on the lowers).


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#31 ·
This is from my faulty mind but the Showas are about 17mm and the marzzocci are closer to 30mm. No Mistaking them, that plus the cast in Showa name.:wink2:

Bling......that is where all answers end with Ohlins. All others seems to be also rans in the bling wars. If you have a budget between $1000-2000 you should gain a good used ohlins/penski rear or a set of forks. take your time and be patient and you can get both under $2000. Bling after all is defined by cost.
 
#32 ·
marzocchi are 40mm diameter. 30mm hex on top cap. the original gold finish is a bit more gold than the showa.

showa are 41mm diameter. 17mm hex on top cap. showa have the boss on the back of the lower piece below the caliper mount where the comp adjuster is on the adjustable version.
 
#38 ·
Going by the hex nut size on my forks, it's pretty clear I've got Marzoccis. I'm unable to locate the ~SHOWA~ branding on the lower castings either.

Yup ... Marzi's.

So I'll be espousing the linear replacement springs - oil change - preload adjusting - air space adjusting method of dialing in the front end. Later, if I decide to put money into the front end, clearly there are a number of options I can adopt. All I'm interested in at present may be locating a pair of adjustable preload caps.

I may also elect to work on that stack of solid and hollow preload spacers idea I've wanted to test out for many years.

Insanely bitchin thread ... highly informative!!!!!

:wink2:


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#34 ·
My mistake then. I was under the impression that the external adjuster at the bottom of the fork leg had to be present in order for the Andreani cartridges to work. Hence my ignorance filled opinion.

I did not know that the Andreani cartridges were set up with all the external adjustment on top, similar to the Showa BPF style. When I did my research on the Andreani set up, I was unable to see that though I was not on the Andreani site at the time.

My apologies if I have pointed anyone in the wrong direction. One I have already started down.......sean
 
#44 ·
I’m interested in the preload caps as well. Came across these on eBay, looks like a Chinese knock off similar to the Ducati part above. Anyone know what size cap to order for a 1995 ss/cr? This one is listed as 41 mm.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.ca/ulk/itm/311950723445
Those are junk, man. I've dealt with other Chinese crap like that a number of times over the previous ten+ years. The alloy used is typically quite soft, which makes it easy to machine at very high speeds ... which means they can pound them out by the bucket loads per hour. I'd avoid throwing your money at that kind of garbage. It's the same stuff you see in ads for all types of bike stuff ... rear sets, control levers and control lever perches, headlight mounts, on and on and on.

The anodizing is also poop. Black will turn to purple or pink, red turns to pink, yellow turns into baby piss. It's all stuff that is engineered down to cost, rather than engineered up to quality.

Regarding preload caps .... I'm thinking (and only thinking) about maybe working up a modification to ~plain~ fork caps which would make them into preload caps. The general idea would be paying for the conversion while also charging a core charge. The core charge would be refunded if you send me your fork caps for modification and you'd only pay for the conversion. I have a 30 x 16 3hp lathe with metric and SAE gear sets, I also have a fairly large mill. Again, and I stress this, I'm only toying with that idea right now.

I'd need to make up the prototype ... that would require purchasing a set of the "real deal" adjustable preload caps and obtaining dimensions and so on of those to see what the preload plunger is shaped like, thread pitch of the adjusters, and so on. I'd also want to get some idea of the alloy used in stock fork caps so the preload plunger alloy could be properly matched so as not to cause galling between the stock caps and the manufactured preload plunger.

As long as the cores are serviceable, it wouldn't be very difficult to produce them once those few details are worked out.


:smile2:

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