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Bought a 400SS for $500!

6K views 57 replies 19 participants last post by  Lelebebbel 
#1 ·
Hello everyone,

I just purchased a 1997 400 Super Sport the other day for $500. It appears to have been owned by a real enthusiast at one point but was then passed around to a few owners who really didn't take care of it. It does run, but its rough and backfiring so that's the first hurdle.

Heres a google drive album.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ldVX5JNSaj3_64VuAQdVCcVhQN7Ax0Mz

I'd really like to swap in a 750 or 900 engine when one is available. But i like to have upgraded to adjustable forks and twin brakes up front, as well as the aluminum swingarm.
 
#3 ·
That is a legitimate concern that I have. I have been thinking I should fix only what's broken, make it run and sell it for $1500. Then if i'm still dead set on a supersport, get a 900SS for around $5k. I am in Tokyo, Japan so value is a little different than elsewhere. I normally ride a 2009 Suzuki GSXR600 but the style of this bike (and the experience of torque from my old Monster 1100...) I really want to get back on a Ducati.

Additionally, I am considering just parting it out as most parts on the 400SS are the same as the 750 and 900. It has a pretty clean solo seat, rear sets, fuel tank, etc.
 

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#5 ·
You may be able to recover $500 for just the engine alone if you part it out. If the fuel tank isn't rusty inside there's a few hundred more. If you really put your heart into it you may be able to pull in $3k+ and still have a few things left over for the 900SS you want. Just going by the pictures it really doesn't look too bad, honestly.

I wonder if the 400cc frame is the same as the 900cc frame? If so, you might think about selling just the engine, keeping the rolling chassis, and then putting together a sweet 900cc engine to put into that frame. Although I've no idea about Japanese vehicle laws regarding "Frankenstein bikes".

Konnichi wa. :smile2:
 
#6 ·
Personally I do not see the point of swapping the engine for a 900.
Not like a 900 a rare or hard to find bike. Why ruin and interesting 400?

Part outs always sound like they make money.
But you get stuck with odd parts, spend tones of time dealing with strange people and it takes a long time to wrap up.

Got a shipper?
I would love that little bike.
 
#7 ·
it's all "the same" bike 400/600/750/900. well, it's a 600 chassis, which is a 750 or 900ss/cr chassis with a single front disc. the very slow version thereof.

97 fairings. the japanese ones tend to get a lot of custom do-dads - dash, rearsets, etc.
 
#11 ·
It’s a close to 400 pound SS with a 400 cc engine in it, so basically it’s going to be a slow but nice handling bike. Has your SS ever quit running on one cylinder ? That’s basically what it will feel like. Parts will cost the same as the big bikes. Still, I would have bought it for $500. It could be a fun project but it could also be a money pit if you don’t limit your enthusiasm.
 
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#12 ·
Isn't it funny many of us who never had the 400 option are like KEEP IT!
Those for who it is not rare look at it differently and if it truly is not rare where you are I say mod it to your hearts content but if possible keep it able to return to stock later on . This will be where the best resale will be but resale and fun are not the same often.

Great buy!

Brad what would you expect on a dyno for a similar 400?
would it be any different than the new scrambler sixty2 ?
 
#18 ·
Thanks Brad.
You know it is funny when about 20 years later Yamaha R3's and KTM 390's are putting out similar numbers and we think it is great. GO LITTLE CARBY ...GO!

11,000rpm? okay so now I might want one more. I wonder if it would be competitive against the kawasaki 400? Any chance you can post up a comparison of a kaw 400 and the duc? Much like the R3 and 390 make the same power but the single crushes the twin in midrange I wonder how the L-twin would do.

Yes it is tilting at windmills but hey that what we do some times.
 
#19 ·
dunno, don't do that stuff. next time i'm at the dyno i'll see if there's some runs. i think the power is surprisingly comparable for an old air cooled 2v engine.

problem is, this is a 900 with a little engine. an r3 isn't an r1 with a little engine, a ktm390 isn't an r8 with a little engine. weight is the killer comparatively.
 
#20 ·
Very true a 390 in race trim is about 300 lbs and a similar carby would be about 360lbs.
Stil a 11,000rpm 2-valver sounds fun for some reason.

Are the 400 cylinders purpose made or are they 750 cylinders with 15mm thick walls? :wink2:
In other words what size can you bore the 400 out to safely? 82,88 or 90?
or how long would the crank or cases hold up if you built one?

Surely someone must be racing or wasting money somewhere.
 
#23 ·
i would suggest finding someone close to hand and having them slap the silly out of you for today.

the early (pre 98) 400 is just a pantah variant, and the biggest bore they can go to and keep 3mm thick cylinder walls is 86mm, hence the 540 kits. same as the 600 - 680. the nouvo 600 is actually a bored/stroked 400 (same specs as pantah 600), it appeared in 94. same head as the 400 (apart from machining around the squish band) , which means quite a bit smaller valves than a 600 pantah. the std 600 has 11:1 or so compression with a dished piston, that's how much smaller the chamber is.

my 93 has one of the 6 speed boxes, which have a very wide ratio spread. much wider than the big block wide ratio box. i ran 14/39 in the monster and at that you could almost just let the clutch out and it would "bonk bonk" along in first. i think std ss gearing was 14/46, which seems nuts. don't recall what i've fitted to it now, too lazy to walk out and check. 94 onwards they just ran the 5 speed box.

the 98 onward 400 uses the 750 or 800 cases, just like a 600/620, and you can slip 88mm cylinders into them. all the 400 cylinders are relieved at the bottom of the spigot to reduce weight, so no outrageous boring. everything else is the same, so 800 crank, pistons, cylinders and heads and it's an 800.

the 400 was made for japan (italy got a 350 up until 92 i think for the tax law). 20 came to au in 93, maybe as a tester for the 600, but the 600 was always going to sell better. made until 97 i believe. lots of 400 monsters went to japan, they're importing them now out here as learner bikes. made them up to 2007 as m400ie.
 
#21 ·
I’m pretty sure it’s based on the 600 motor, but not sure if they share crank stroke or valve sizes. I know it sounds appealing, a little Ducati twin, but it’s not little. Now, if you had a bigger spare motor and a shoe horn laying around....
 
#22 ·
I don’t know much about Ducati in general, but I think the 400SS engine is based on F3, which in turn was 400cc version of 750 F1. Did US get F3, or F3 also for the market with displacement based license or tax laws? Anyway, I don’t know about Europe, but in japan, 400SS is quite rare, too, probably rarer than 750 or 900, because, in the mid 90s, it was spectacularly outclassed by Japanese rivals, and also spectacularly more expensive. It was a special sort of people who bought Ducati, especially the small displacement ones. My derestricted RGV250 made more power, and mine was a whole lot lighter, too, but I think in the context of Japan, 400SS makes a good case. Wringing out all the power it has, and with the beautiful handling (I’ve learned how good the chassis is just recently from my 900SS), it must be way more fun than the “slow” SS.
 
#26 ·
Wow! Didn't expect so many responses!

So I basically have decided to keep it as original as it is, and just repair stuff. I have ordered a new air filter, spark plugs, and grips. I am currently bidding on a pair of OEM clip-on's (currently right side is bent from tipping over during a hurricane/typhoon). I also need a right hand front turn signal, found one for $39 on Ebay.

Something I'm struggling to find is a carburetor rebuild kit for a 1997 400SS...the listings i see cut-off at 1995, not sure why as my research has told me there is only one change to the 400SS during its lifespan and that was bodywork (the vent for the rear cylinder).


But then..................!

Today was an interesting day. I have been eyeing an abandoned 1997 Monster on Yokota Air Base for years and finally decided to ask the base police if they could track down the owner. They cannot. It seems I may pick this up for parts and possibly an engine. However I'm not sure what size it is, but from what i've read, these 90's air cooled 2V's are basically all the same. I know it isn't a 400 because it has a dry clutch. If just the tank latch fits my SuperSport, its a win. The rest can be put on classifieds/ebay/yahoo auctions.
 

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#29 ·
....I have been eyeing an abandoned 1997 Monster on Yokota Air Base for years and finally decided to ask the base police if they could track down the owner. They cannot. It seems I may pick this up for parts and possibly an engine. However I'm not sure what size it is, but from what i've read, these 90's air cooled 2V's are basically all the same. I know it isn't a 400 because it has a dry clutch. If just the tank latch fits my SuperSport, its a win. The rest can be put on classifieds/ebay/yahoo auctions.
You need to ask people smarter than myself, but those forks/front brakes on that Monster may be an upgrade for your bike.
 
#28 ·
i would suggest finding someone close to hand and having them slap the silly out of you for today.
So no different than any other morning....

540 kit you say... you must have one in the dyno to compare. I would think mid 50's rwhp is possible so not far off from a 620/750 but 11,000 rpms. I would wonder how they hold up long term, which parts break first.
 
#30 ·
on mine, esp after i'd advanced the cams, anything over 9,000 rpm just felt like abuse to me. really didn't ride it like that at all. maybe if it was making power all the way it'd be ok, but it just felt unnecessary. it was better with the 620 cams because it peaked earlier and make you want to shift.
 
#32 ·
It is suprising how cheap they are here, i think part of it is due to low demand. Dealerships are far and few between and the prices for labor are insane. There's 400SS's for sale on the auction we sites for as little at $1000 equivalent and zero bids...nobody wants them.
 
#33 ·
Just a progress update.

I replaced the spark plugs and the bike fired right up, idles nicely and revs well. Haven't had a chance to ride it but I haven't told myself the carbs WON'T need a cleaning. I haven't opened a carburetor in probably 15 years so that will be fun. Also re-clear'd the front fender as it was sun-faded completely flat and wetsanded some scratches out of the tank. Also got rid of an awful carbon fiber sticker from the fuel cap that left 2mm of residue I spent an hour scraping off.

It now has a new air filter, new spark plugs, new handlebars, and the body work has been sent off for paint. As its got nearly all the obvious items that make a SuperLight a SuperLight (mudguards, gauge cluster, mono seat), I've order a superlight decal set. I'm going to have a friend make me a 4 to replace the 9, just for some originality as many 400's in Japan have 900 badging.

Sadly I ordered a late model Sach's rear shock (to add height to match the Monster M900 forks) only to find that the bike already has one swapped in...so thats a bummer, wasted $45 on ebay. Also ordered a set of handlebars labelled 400SS clip-ons but they are 40mm...not 50. So I need to figure out what they're for and sell them.
 

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#35 ·
Well i've been gone for awhile so I thought I would update this post.

I got the bike painted and she links mint! Everything was going great until on the ride home from work it started hesitating under load occasionally. The next time I rode it, it would barely idle, and then it progressed to running on only the front cylinder. Decided to clean out the carbs and they actually didn't look to bad. Got them back in, and of course the same issue remained. Started pulling ignition system parts off my old monster parts bike and Ifigured out it was a bad spark plug wire.

I rode it after that, still sputtering and backfiring under any load above like 10% throttle no matter the RPM. And after sitting at a light for awhile the idle slows and eventually stalls and struggles to start again. I'm thinking the plugs could be fouled (but what caused that?). Or the coils could be dying, even though they were swapped and the issue didn't change (maybe the monsters coils were also dying).

It could be running too rich/lean but that wouldn't explain why it ran fine for the week or 2 after I started riding it. My first thought was just to order new coils, igniters, plugs and wires (throw parts at it!). But im curious what you guys think.



978183

978184

978185

978186
 
#36 ·
Handsome bike with a clogged fuel filter and or sock on the fuel pump - pump itself might be a little gummed up too. Look carefully at each of the fuel hose routing with the tank down and seat on - make sure it is not pinched or collapsed
 
#37 ·
See I thought this too, but the float bowls are always full. Each time I stop, I open the drains and loads of fuel comes out. It just seems like an ignition issue. However I'll pull the fuel cap off and see what the filter looks like.

Piping all looks good. Maybe I'll pull the feed hose off the carb and turn on the ignition. If I don't get a healthy spray...fuel filter it is.
 
#39 ·
I'm wondering why you haven't swapped the 900 monster engine into the SS yet?
Don’t even try!! This is possible in other countries, but this is Japan.

In Japan we have vehicle inspection every two years. Deviating too far from factory specific leads to extra costs.

An engine change from Chuugata(loosely: medium class), to Oogata (again loosely: large class) will lead to reinspection, reclassification, more money. Some modifications will render it declassified, making it illegal to register, not legally rideable on public roads.

I myself have done such builds, you need to be very very careful what you do.

Depending on the OP’s driving licensing, maybe make it impossible to legally ride.

Careful careful now.

Unless he is mechanically adept, has equal Japanese language ability, and high Shakken knowledge, let it be.

If you want a 900, just buy a 900. The 400’s are inexpensive for a reason. Even a 900 isn’t so expensive, and without all the hassle.

My advice to the OP: fix it and ride it like it is. If you want bigger(displacement) just buy bigger.
 
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