Frame/engine bolts upgrade ?? - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 2019, 3:17 am Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Yuma, Az., USA
Posts: 771
Frame/engine bolts upgrade ??

1.) I have been actively searching this topic all evening with nothing located. I seem to have very little luck with the search function. I'm certain it's a "loose screw behind the steering wheel" issue ... I'm not using it correctly.

2.) Bike = 1996 900CR. What I'm wanting to know is; are there uprated aftermarket or NOS engine mounting bolts available? I know I read something here in the forum about retrofitting larger engine mounting bolts but I can't locate where I saw it. Two things were of interest ... larger diameter bolts requiring reaming of the frame mounts (as well as possibly reaming the engine case mounts) .... and ... the use of some aftermarket frame bolts (A.P.E. or ARP perhaps??) that are both larger and a "better" grade. Or perhaps chromoly bolts (one of the 41xx alloys)?



So is there some sort of "tricked out" procedure to install better .. or larger .. or stronger (or all of the above) engine mount bolts (aka "frame bolts") ???

In the event that it matters, I've purchased a brand new BBB Fab (Steve Bailey) frame brace, due to arrive in about a week.

I'm just doing more learning .. more research .. for possibly adding things to the to-do list.

Thanks.

Never Quit, Die Falling Forward
1996 900 CR. ...Go, Blow, Or Put A Hole In The Fence.
Rex Coil 7 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 2019, 8:18 am
Senior Member
 
FredSmoot23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 655
Garage
Images: 18
upgrade....

go to "nicholssportbikes.com" for their engine/frame bolts.

Fred
RockAZ and ifly65 like this.

1996 SS/SP B52 40k miles
MBP collets / 748 front rotors / 4.5" rear wheel / Sharkskins / Nichols frame bolts
FredSmoot23 is offline  
post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 2019, 8:47 am
Senior Member
 
ducvet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: lakes region, NH, usa
Posts: 3,385
Garage
Images: 1
Nichols bolts are good to go, well made and plenty strong.

But

I have seen exactly 2 bikes ( 748 and 900ss) break motor mount bolts in the last 20 years of doing this full time. I would rate this right up there with changing you turn signal bulbs as a necessity.
Small or large bolts are only a concern if you are changing cases to a later model case.
Or are building a fire breathing motor to fit in a chassis that will be raced hard and crashed often.
Or you are looking to add some jewelry to your bike no one will see, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Seriously we raced these bikes with built motors when they were new and never found a good reason to change them and outside of simply replacing a old part as part of a restoration I see no reason to do so today. Nothing wrong with changing them but again I would look at the application. A "correct" bike should NOT have the frame drilled out a hot rodded, racer or custom it is perfectly fine and should not hurt value any more than the other mods.

I have a set onf Nichols bolts in one bike because someone gave them to me can you tell the difference riding? I can not street or track.
you should see the bolts used for frame sliders and how often they are not nearly as strong as the oem small bolts, though often strong enough for the job at hand.
Full_Spectrum likes this.
ducvet is offline  
 
post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 2019, 9:04 am
Prolific Poster Award
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Grass Lake, Mi, USA
Posts: 5,507
Images: 4
If I had an issue with the stockers , broke one or something, I’d probably buy the Nichols as a replacement. Supposedly they’ll make things more rigid. Keep the stock ones torqued and you’ll never know the difference. If you want to spend money on an invisible upgrade that may actually be felt ( if you’re good) , replace your front axle , spacers , speedo drive, and bearings with the larger diameter newer axle. I could see where that might make the steering a little more precise.

'96 Ducati SS900CR, '07 S4RS, '06 Busa, '77 Bonny,
'00 Superglide, '85 Sportster, '78 SR500
duc96cr is offline  
post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 2019, 1:41 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Yuma, Az., USA
Posts: 771
Well then ... that takes care of that!

Thanks fellas. One less thing to do.

~thumbs up~


Never Quit, Die Falling Forward
1996 900 CR. ...Go, Blow, Or Put A Hole In The Fence.
Rex Coil 7 is online now  
post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old Jul 18th, 2019, 11:53 am
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BEACH, Ca, USA
Posts: 566
I disagree with the above. I have raced my 900Cr with and with stock and with the Nichols engine bolts at Willow Springs and there is HUGE difference in the upgrade. Thru turn 6 thru turn 9 when you are full on the throttle the stock bolts have you Duc wallowing and with the Nichols bolts it is tight and confident inspiring.

http://www.jimhayes.com/Tracks/WSIR/WSIR-4.jpg

The stock bolts if your lucky might contact the case in two places as the OD of the stock Bolt is concededly smaller the in diameter of the case mounting holes.
the Nichols contacts the case 100% in all areas and is now sandwiched with nuts tightening from both ends not like the stock one.

if you ride on the street you don't need it, if you are racing or canyon at a fast pace (80mph +) or just want the bike to handle better DO it IMHO

https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~peer/Nic...inebolts2.html
FredSmoot23 likes this.

"Hold It Open Until You See GOD Then Brake"

1977 YAMAHA RD400
1979 YAMAHA Daytona Special (sold)
1985 YAMAHA RZ350
1995 DUCATI 900 Hot Rodded CR
2002 APRILIA RSVR
califblue is offline  
post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old Jul 18th, 2019, 8:31 pm
Prolific Poster Award
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Grass Lake, Mi, USA
Posts: 5,507
Images: 4
Well, there ya go. If you ride really fast I guess they’d be worth it. I am incapable of stressing the stock fasteners. I don’t feel flex at the speed I corner. But, I think the average Ducati rider might notice the bigger axle up front, buck for buck. Califblue, what front axle do you use ?

'96 Ducati SS900CR, '07 S4RS, '06 Busa, '77 Bonny,
'00 Superglide, '85 Sportster, '78 SR500
duc96cr is offline  
post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old Jul 18th, 2019, 8:49 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Yuma, Az., USA
Posts: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by califblue View Post
I disagree with the above. I have raced my 900Cr with and with stock and with the Nichols engine bolts at Willow Springs and there is HUGE difference in the upgrade. Thru turn 6 thru turn 9 when you are full on the throttle the stock bolts have you Duc wallowing and with the Nichols bolts it is tight and confident inspiring.

http://www.jimhayes.com/Tracks/WSIR/WSIR-4.jpg

The stock bolts if your lucky might contact the case in two places as the OD of the stock Bolt is concededly smaller the in diameter of the case mounting holes.
the Nichols contacts the case 100% in all areas and is now sandwiched with nuts tightening from both ends not like the stock one.

if you ride on the street you don't need it, if you are racing or canyon at a fast pace (80mph +) or just want the bike to handle better DO it IMHO

https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~peer/Nic...inebolts2.html
I had a suspicion of such. It's what motivated me to post this thread.

"The stock bolts if your lucky might contact the case in two places as the OD of the stock Bolt is concededly smaller the in diameter of the case mounting holes. the Nichols contacts the case 100% in all areas and is now sandwiched with nuts tightening from both ends not like the stock one."

This ^. It makes so much sense, and it was something that I thought about after I bought a couple of frames and a junk engine case and began looking it all over. I mean those two bolts are what essentially connect the headstock to the swingarm pivot. You wouldn't want any ~slop~ on the frame bolts any more than you'd want ~slop~ at the swingarm pivot.


43mm forks, larger front axle, larger frame bolts, larger CNC machined chain adjusters, BBB Fab frame brace. Perhaps a chromoly swingarm pivot bolt (if it isn't already).

Short of building an all new frame with larger diameter tubes (thin wall) with a few strategically placed reinforcement pieces that's about as rigid and squared-up as you're going to get one of these is my guess. The best news is that it would require nothing but bolt-on pieces. Maybe a wee bit of machining.


Never Quit, Die Falling Forward
1996 900 CR. ...Go, Blow, Or Put A Hole In The Fence.

Last edited by Rex Coil 7; Jul 18th, 2019 at 8:55 pm.
Rex Coil 7 is online now  
post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old Jul 19th, 2019, 7:56 am
Prolific Poster Award
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Grass Lake, Mi, USA
Posts: 5,507
Images: 4
Can you buy a chromoly swing arm pivot bolt ? I don’t recall seeing one for sale. Mine has a little wear and one made out of harder material would prevent that.

'96 Ducati SS900CR, '07 S4RS, '06 Busa, '77 Bonny,
'00 Superglide, '85 Sportster, '78 SR500
duc96cr is offline  
post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old Jul 19th, 2019, 8:16 am Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Yuma, Az., USA
Posts: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by duc96cr View Post
Can you buy a chromoly swing arm pivot bolt ? I don’t recall seeing one for sale. Mine has a little wear and one made out of harder material would prevent that.
I have no idea. It wouldn't take a competent machinist long to make one though. There are even better materials (other than CrMo) these days if one were so inclined.



.

Never Quit, Die Falling Forward
1996 900 CR. ...Go, Blow, Or Put A Hole In The Fence.
Rex Coil 7 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome