7/8" handlebar conversion on '96 900SS/CR ??? - Page 2 - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 2019, 10:30 am
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So, sell the bike that I just bought, and buy a Monster? I haven't even ridden my SS yet. That makes no sense to me, sorry.
If you have not ridden it yet why are you condemning the stock bars that may be fine, or a set of heli bars that are a little higher? I thin you should ride it without too much money time spent on it first to see if you will like it before going down the rabbit hole too far. A monster would be cheaper and likely more comfortable with no modifications than a highly modded supersport.

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I'd also point out that changing trees and bars is hardly "turning the SS into a Monster".
Great point except it seldom ends there. What will you do to have the bars clear the fairing and windscreen?
What about the new longer brake lines you will need?
Throttle cables will need to be changed to longer (monster) cables., sometimes choke as well.

I do these conversions enough to know it is never as simple or cheap to make such modifications as "just" a set of tree's, well unless you simply do not care the outcome which I doubt is the case. I have a customer with a spiegler bar conversion on a 996 and it is a very well made kit with many of the parts included to make things work, but it is far from inexpensive for that reason.
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Crucially, I don't have the money to uprate to a more recent model either. Besides, I prefer the air cooled engine.
A man's got to know his limitations so good to know, I too prefer the air cooled motors and own both. I would not be surprised though if you asked around you might find a monster 900 owner that woould like a SS so rather than selling think of it as a parallel trade. My customer I mentioned with the modded/monsterized SS would have certainly considered a trade for a more original Supersport so they are out there it is a matter of finding each other.


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If I sell my SS and buy a Monster ... then I'm no different ... no more unique ... than every other monkey's uncle that has a Monster.
True although if you research monsters you will see they may be the most highly modified /personalized Ducati model. You can do pretty much what you want to a monster and you are starting with possibly a BETTER starting point than the SS. In the end it is your bike ,your decision. I am only sharing my experience from building and working on them both for 20+ years, things I see first hand not read off a web page.

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When you say "Superbike", are you referring to a Ducati "Superbike"?
Not Ducati superbike but 1980's UJM "superbike bend" which are about a 1-2" rise from the risers and are higher than what you have now. Not to be confused with clubmans which are lower.

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Regarding the adjustable steering stops on the Monster triples, that's fine and all ... however Member *psyopper made mention of the offset of the Monster triples being 3mm shorter than the SS triples.
Yes the monster trees have less offset so more trail. I swap SS trees onto monsters with no steering stop issues. I have not gone the other way but have both bare monster frames and monster trees so if you ask nicely I can test fit a set if I can find what box the tree's are in. I would guess the stops just need a slight adjustment to keep the fork tubes off the frame tubes. Also the more rearward bars will need to clear the tank which with the tall risers you will need to clear your adjustable forks if you have them should fit.

Keep in mind that wide bars = more leverage so lighter perceived steering, this is why you have more trail to tame the tendency for riders to manhandle something that needs a light touch. Many monster's have steering dampers , more than clip on equipped bikes due to the wide bars.

I would wait until you get to spend some time on the bike as is first. If at that time you think a slightly higher bar will work I would look at Heli or some of the other brands that are higher than what you own and these while not as high as a monster bar will be close to a 1980's superbike bend with much fewer parts to change and added costs. This is all subjective if you end goal is more about building the bike into something "special to you" at which point have at it you will learn along the way.


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I appreciate where your heart is in regards to your suggestions. I understand you've nothing but the best of intentions, and I sincerely appreciate that. Thanks very much for your willingness to help.
You are welcome opinions are free but often we both know their worth. It is your bike but I all to often see people create a tar baby out of something that was close to being right or so far off it would never work. As always know the risks and have fun on the journey.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 2019, 12:14 pm Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ducvet View Post
If you have not ridden it yet why are you condemning the stock bars that may be fine, or a set of heli bars that are a little higher?
I am not condemning them ... I have said over and over that "if" they don't work out, "then" I'll need to do something different. Please read what I've said again. I've also said over and over that I'm simply looking into options in the event the clip-ons don't work out. I don't know where you're getting this "condemning" thing from.

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Originally Posted by ducvet View Post
I thin you should ride it without too much money time spent on it first to see if you will like it before going down the rabbit hole too far.
I'm way ahead of that. Again, i'm not spending any money on reconfiguring the SS ... all i've done is ask questions, take notes, and putting those notes aside. It's just mental preparation, nothing more than finding out what options are available and making choices BEFORE spending a single red cent on anything involving reconfiguring the riding position. It's just questions.

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Originally Posted by ducvet View Post
A monster would be cheaper and likely more comfortable with no modifications than a highly modded supersport.
Thanks for your view and opinion.

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Originally Posted by ducvet View Post
Great point except it seldom ends there. What will you do to have the bars clear the fairing and windscreen?
remove or replace them. Yes yes ... I understand that it's more than a simple "R or R" task, but to me all of that is a given with no need for me to explain how I understand those notions. Probably my fault for taking a few things for granted (meaning you and others do not really know me yet).

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Originally Posted by ducvet View Post
What about the new longer brake lines you will need?
already way ahead of you there. I fully understand that.

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Originally Posted by ducvet View Post
Throttle cables will need to be changed to longer (monster) cables., sometimes choke as well.
already way ahead of you there. I fully understand that.

This is not my first rodeo. I've built a number of bikes/ATVs and even SCORE race trucks. I am fully aware that reconfiguring things has a defined domino affect. I purposely did not explain all of that in order to keep my opening post short and concise. Otherwise people don't want to read it, and/or complain about how long my posts are. But all of those problems and domino issues are a given, I understand that. Thinking more about that now, I think it's about the people in this membership getting to know me better. I've probably taken that for granted.

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Originally Posted by ducvet View Post
I do these conversions enough to know it is never as simple or cheap to make such modifications as "just" a set of tree's, well unless you simply do not care the outcome which I doubt is the case.
As have I. All of that stuff is a given. I totally and completely understand all of that. This is my seventeenth motorcycle. I've built race bikes, street bikes, and been a metal fabricator since I was 14 years old (1974). I designed all of my own front and rear suspension modifications myself, as well as did all of the welding and fab on that bike myself. I've designed and built BMX frames and forks long beforethe term "BMX" was ever coined. You're making a lot of assumptions about me here.

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Originally Posted by ducvet View Post
I have a customer with a spiegler bar conversion on a 996 and it is a very well made kit with many of the parts included to make things work, but it is far from inexpensive for that reason.
...check.

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Originally Posted by ducvet View Post
A man's got to know his limitations
Having been a street cop in S.E. Los Angeles during the highest crime rate era in the most densely populated region of the U.S.A ... I fully understand the concept of knowing ones limitations. It also how I survived while serving in a nuclear security counter terrorist team when taking on the Red Brigades in Germany while serving in the military. I owned and operated my own brick and mortar business that specialized in industrial equipment repair ... every day brought challenges that required thinking on your feet and coming up with improvised solutions. Fifteen years, 7k ft/sq facility, eighteen employees, and responsible (contracted) for making sure that emergency power generators were up to snuff for airports, hospitals, police stations, fire departments, communications repeater stations, and casinos.

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Originally Posted by ducvet View Post
I would not be surprised though if you asked around you might find a monster 900 owner that woould like a SS so rather than selling think of it as a parallel trade. My customer I mentioned with the modded/monsterized SS would have certainly considered a trade for a more original Supersport so they are out there it is a matter of finding each other.
Thank you, I'll keep that in mind should I find myself in a situation that requires such actions.


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Originally Posted by ducvet View Post
True although if you research monsters you will see they may be the most highly modified /personalized Ducati model. You can do pretty much what you want to a monster and you are starting with possibly a BETTER starting point than the SS. In the end it is your bike ,your decision. I am only sharing my experience from building and working on them both for 20+ years, things I see first hand not read off a web page.
Check.

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Originally Posted by ducvet View Post
Not Ducati superbike but 1980's UJM "superbike bend" which are about a 1-2" rise from the risers and are higher than what you have now. Not to be confused with clubmans which are lower.
Well aware of that. comes down to risers used and bars selected. Again, I raced for years, built bikes, I get it.

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Originally Posted by ducvet View Post
Yes the monster trees have less offset so more trail. I swap SS trees onto monsters with no steering stop issues. I have not gone the other way but have both bare monster frames and monster trees so if you ask nicely I can test fit a set if I can find what box the tree's are in. I would guess the stops just need a slight adjustment to keep the fork tubes off the frame tubes. Also the more rearward bars will need to clear the tank which with the tall risers you will need to clear your adjustable forks if you have them should fit.
I understand that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ducvet View Post
Keep in mind that wide bars = more leverage so lighter perceived steering, this is why you have more trail to tame the tendency for riders to manhandle something that needs a light touch. Many monster's have steering dampers , more than clip on equipped bikes due to the wide bars.
Understood.

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Originally Posted by ducvet View Post
I would wait until you get to spend some time on the bike as is first.
I'm not barrelling into changing anything ... again, I'm just gathering information.

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Originally Posted by ducvet View Post
If at that time you think a slightly higher bar will work I would look at Heli or some of the other brands that are higher than what you own and these while not as high as a monster bar will be close to a 1980's superbike bend with much fewer parts to change and added costs.
I'm not after a "superbike bend" ... I just want to be able to ride the bike without pain. If it ends up that the stock bars work, then GREAT!

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Originally Posted by ducvet View Post
This is all subjective if you end goal is more about building the bike into something "special to you" at which point have at it you will learn along the way.
Gotchya.

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Originally Posted by ducvet View Post
You are welcome opinions are free but often we both know their worth. It is your bike but I all to often see people create a tar baby out of something that was close to being right or so far off it would never work. As always know the risks and have fun on the journey.
Understood.

Somewhere along the way here things have become confused. I'm not intent on doing anything before actually putting time on the bike. I've mentioned my liking for UJM AMA Superbikes .... but that's all it is ... an admiration. However I fully understand that function comes way way way before form. I've not once said I'm going to spend a bunch of money on triples, bars, and so on before ever even riding the bike. I really hope that I've conveyed that clearly now so I don't cause any confusion. I promise I'll obtain a Monster if it comes to that. Ok? Thank you very much for your input. The fact that you posted all of the above may be helpful to many many other folks thinking of diving headlong into something they know little about. I think you and I have far more in common as far as experience and knowledge gained from decades of doing things than at first thought.

Lastly, just to make certain I've got my intentions across ... I'm just gathering information ... no money will be spent on anything until time is put on the bike. I'm the type of person that thinks forward, and gather information on possible outcomes before the situation is dire and demands immediate action. Which is all I'm doing in this thread.

Thanks so much for your input, and I hope you will continue to do so. Rex.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 2019, 1:09 pm
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Hey Rex I am just screwing with you here mate not getting into the middle of this --But you do know that the first Bike to win the World Superbike title was -------A BMW R90S lol

1991 Ducati 900ss-Euro, 1991 Ducati 907ie. 1978 Yamaha SR500, 1979 Yamaha RD400 Daytona Special, 1973 Truimph X-75, 1975 Triumph T-160, 1976 Triumph T140, BMW's too many to list
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 2019, 1:52 pm Thread Starter
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Hey Rex I am just screwing with you here mate not getting into the middle of this --But you do know that the first Bike to win the World Superbike title was -------A BMW R90S lol
Actually, I do know that! I'm not all super informed about all of the riders in the early onset of the AMA SBK stuff, but it's been a hobby of mine (as a matter of study) for about ten years now. I was in the military 79 to 85 so I wasn't really in a position to attend any events back then. The thing I like the most about that era was bikes had to be built, not bought. And a good deal of the riders were more or less on their own as privateers or with small sponsorships. Those old bikes handled like ass. "Wobble machines" as some called them. Kenny Roberts used to call them "The Diesels" due to their weight, size, and rather clumsy abilities compared to GP bikes of the day.

Some of the "cheater tricks" were interesting as well. Some teams would actually put together chrome moly frames, copied as much as possible with small but effective changes in geometry, going as far as making the welds look like mass produced MIG welded frames to sneak past tech inspection. To me, it was the "men of men" class since the bikes weren't designed on a sheet of paper on an engineer's drafting table and purposely designed to suit the task ... but instead were street bikes that were never designed for racing. Simply amazing era, with very interesting modifications to suit the rules and the task.

The likes of Wes Cooley, Freddie Spencer, Wayne Rainey, and many others "loved to hate" those bikes back then. Wobble monsters, with far more horsepower than the frames and suspension could deal with, and tires that would be considered garbage today. No rider assist tech (wheelie control, ABS brakes, and the like).

Single pot Lockheed calipers, forks taken from heavy cruisers extended by welding a short length of a donor set of forks to raise the bike up an inch or so adapted to their bikes, hand-modified side cases on the engines to provide cornering clearance, and exhaust systems bent by hand without using a tube bender (it's easy to spot those, they don't have mandrel bent curves that go from 90 degree bend to the next 90 degree bend, but instead have long graceful curves that were made by packing sand inside of the tubes as a mandrel and bent little bits at a time in a vise or other jig to create the long curves). Many of the frame mods were brazed together rather than welded. And the obvious "cheater fairings" made by mounting a large number plate out in front of the triples at an angle and up high to create a "fairing". Same with the rear end, large number plates mounted in such a way that they actually "cleaned up" the buffeting as the airstream broke around the ass end of the bike. The engines were coated with "Kal-Gard" which was a very thin grey/black coating that helped to "pull heat" from the engines back then (that's a very simplified explanation). Just killer bikes.

Those guys had balls of brass, so large they clanked when they walked.



I could talk about those bikes all day.


'96 CR. ...Reading is so hard. ...Thinking hurts.
I'm a square peg among round holes (HA!)
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 2019, 7:49 am
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Anything like these maybe?



According to the webshop they fit carby as well as injected models from 1991->...
On top off that you can choose colour, fork diameter and handlebar diameter.
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 2019, 10:19 am Thread Starter
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Member *BelgianDuc900SS ... you're a frelling LEGEND man!!! Thank you!


'96 CR. ...Reading is so hard. ...Thinking hurts.
I'm a square peg among round holes (HA!)
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 2019, 1:04 pm
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Before you commit to changing anything, remember that the stock 900SS clip ons are very high. They were way too high for me, even after dropping them as low as they would go, and I had to ultimately change them out for 888 clip ons, which are several inches lower.

1996 900 SS/SP #C22, 1996 916 Corsa (ex-Ferracci), 1998 916 SPS #774, 1999 748R (race), 2001 996R (US), 2001 996R (Euro), 2002 998R #481, 2011 848 EVO (race), 2008 1098R #262, 2014 1199 Superleggera #213
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 2019, 7:29 pm Thread Starter
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Before you commit to changing anything, remember that the stock 900SS clip ons are very high. They were way too high for me, even after dropping them as low as they would go, and I had to ultimately change them out for 888 clip ons, which are several inches lower.
Thank you. To be clear, as I've said several times (four? five?), I'm not spending any money or changing anything regarding the handlebars until I put some time on the bike.


'96 CR. ...Reading is so hard. ...Thinking hurts.
I'm a square peg among round holes (HA!)
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 2019, 11:30 pm
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Originally Posted by rennsportmotorrad View Post
Hey Rex I am just screwing with you here mate not getting into the middle of this --But you do know that the first Bike to win the World Superbike title was -------A BMW R90S lol

AMA Superbike title....yes. World Superbike title....no. That honor would go to Honda and Fred Merkel.



This is a complete list of FIM World Superbike Champions, from 1988 up to and including 2018.

(I cropped the chart at 1995)

Riders Championship

By season
Season Champion Motorcycle Wins 2nd pl. 3rd pl. Team



1988 Fred Merkel Honda RC30 2 2 1 Rumi Honda
1989 Fred Merkel Honda RC30 3 2 5 Rumi Honda
1990 Raymond Roche Ducati 851 8 7 2 Squadra Corse Ducati Lucchinelli

1991 Doug Polen Ducati 888 17 4 0 Fast by Ferracci Ducati
1992 Doug Polen Ducati 888 9 4 2 Team Police Ducati
1993 Scott Russell Kawasaki ZXR-750 5 12 1 Team Muzzy Kawasaki 1994 Carl Fogarty Ducati 916 10 4 0 Virginio Ferrari Ducati Corse

1995 Carl Fogarty Ducati 916 13 6 0 Virginio Ferrari Ducati Corse

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My garage: Twins:2000.5 Mille R, 2000 996, 1994 EX500 basket case 1993 900SS. Suzukis: 2004 GSXR600, 1992 GSXR750 oil boiler, 1983 XN-85 Turbo
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 2019, 5:44 pm Thread Starter
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I'm really coming around to the stock CR fairing ~look~, so I'm really hoping the stock handlebars/clip-ons work out!

Then the only thing fairing related will be the headlight. I hope the stocker will be sufficient for these unlighted roads and pitch black highways out here.

On my 1984 Sportster I replaced the sealed beam with a Hella lens and Hella H4 bulb (the sneaky one, that had a 55 watt low beam and a 100 watt high beam). It really helped out.

So here's to praying to the Ducati gods that the clip ons and the headlight work out!


'96 CR. ...Reading is so hard. ...Thinking hurts.
I'm a square peg among round holes (HA!)
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