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-   -   Catastrophe on day 1 post rebuild. Airbox lid lifted, motor ate sand. 900SS CR (https://www.ducati.ms/forums/57-supersport/695233-catastrophe-day-1-post-rebuild-airbox-lid-lifted-motor-ate-sand-900ss-cr.html)

Lelebebbel Jan 21st, 2018 11:15 pm

Catastrophe on day 1 post rebuild. Airbox lid lifted, motor ate sand. 900SS CR
 
Bought in November in questionable condition. Spent the last 10 weeks pulling everything apart, had frame repaired and coated, installed new cylinder studs, fixed wiring, cleaned up tank, set the valves, undid decades of questionable repairs and errors, etc.

This weekend I finally got a plate, and started some test rides to sort out the carbs. I had an ongoing issue where the idle would either hang hot or cold, or die when hot. But it was great once on the needle and mains, so I rode 100km to work and back, with a few stops to fine tune the idle mixture screw. I thought I had it dialed once I got there.

On the way back in the rain, things slowly started getting worse again - this time, bike would die when off the throttle. Suspected maybe fouled plugs, maybe choking one cylinder due to the carb synch screw being off, maybe ignition issue due to water or something. I could keep things going if I kept the throttle on a bit, it was raining, dark and cold, so I rode home.

Opened the air box to find this

https://s9.postimg.org/s76eauzr3/IMG...121_195817.jpg


Oh no.

The lid was on properly, but I think the clamps are a bit weak. There are marks on the tank so maybe the tank was pushing on them, either way it obviously lifted enough for it to fill with crud and sand from the front wheel.

I had some hope at first that the rubber snorkels had kept most of the sand out of the engine, but then I pulled the plugs. I'm pretty sure I can see scratches in the cylinder walls and some grains of sand on the vertical piston. The horizontal cylinder looks better (at least viewed through the plug hole), but the plug was oily. It had been dry when I last checked it 100km before while at work.


I'm pretty deflated. I guess I could do compression/leakdown first, cranking it with the starter I feel like it has lost compression for sure, but maybe it's just my imagination.

The engine will obviously have to come out again even just to make sure no sand is left in the cylinders. Then I'll see what the damage is. I was planning to save this years bike budget for some FCRs, now I may be looking for a donor engine instead.


And my neutral light stopped working, too.

stoshmonster Jan 21st, 2018 11:46 pm

The rubber lip on the air filter should have prevented all that crud from getting into the air box. What kind of air filter were you using,I don't see one in your pic?

Lelebebbel Jan 22nd, 2018 8:47 am

I'll take a photo. You are correct though, the aftermarket filter is the problem. It has a rubber lip but I compared it with a picture of the OEM one, and it is much thinner. Meaning the air box lid sat lower. This explains why the clamps were weak and required tweaking to hold the lid down. Looking at a picture of the stock clamps, they had already been significantly tweaked before.

This is another example in a long list of wrong parts that were on this bike when I got it, unfortunately I didn't catch this one. I wonder how long it ran with the filter like that before I got it, the cylinders looked good when I did the studs. Then again I doubt they ever rode in bad weather so the front wheel wouldn't have sprayed dirt up there nearly as much.

Bob McCarthy Jan 22nd, 2018 10:12 am

Unfortunate

The stock airbox is very effective, I used a K&N with success. Most take snorkels out, I did and loved the intake roar.

The filter/intake should not pass dirt nor sand if properly installed.

Bob

dspear99ca Jan 22nd, 2018 11:56 am

Wow that is a real bummer.

Hard to believe that much crap got sucked into the gap... it's a long path from the road around the fender through the fairing to the top of the engine...do you have a fender on the front wheel? On my SP whenever I pulled the fairings there was no road dirt higher than knee level, mostly it collected at the bottom a bit. My airbox area was always pristine. Having said that I never rode it when there was a lot of winter sand on the roads...

Looks like as good a time as any to go with upsized high-comps.

As for aftermarket filters, I did a lot of research when I bought my current MS and decided to stick with OEM. I've run the oiled K&N's on other bikes, but the fact is they stop less dirt from getting through... a lot less... than the OEM paper filters. I hate paying $70 at the dealership for one, but I do it. FWIW, the K&N seemed to fit about the same on my bike as the OEM... it was a very tight fit and you had to push the clips hard to close them.

Coombs is outside Parksville on the island, right?

Lelebebbel Jan 22nd, 2018 1:21 pm

Yes just behind Parksville.

I have the fender on there.. I rode through a lot of water yesterday night on the highway going home, so probably the worst case scenario for water spray. And the roads are still dirty because it's January..

If the cylinders are damaged, which I am expecting them to be, I will go 94mm with high comp.

It already has some nice FBF 11:1 92mm pistons, which are probably wrecked now as well.

I feel pretty dumb for not having changed that air filter, it's just that the PO said it was new, and it looked very clean, so I never gave it much thought. I should've known by now that every part on this bike should be suspect and probably wrong. For example my oil cooler was held on with a butchered SAE bolt on one side and metric on the other. When I turn my headlight to low beam, the high beams turn on and vice versa. The jets were mixed up, the chain too short, and so on.



If the damage is as bad as I am guessing based on oily plug and loss of idle, I'm gonna probably tear the engine right apart and do the oil gallery plug and everything else I didn't get to, maybe some fresh paint..

One thing I still need to decide is if I want to sell my other kidney and put FCRs on at the same time now, and get away from the airbox altogether.
Due to the frame repair there is an extra tube behind my steering neck, which means I have to split the airbox every time it comes off. Huge pita. The only thing is that pod filters are probably also not great in the wet I'm guessing, or is there a good workaround for that?

wmfleet2 Jan 22nd, 2018 1:35 pm

what coils do you have on the machine

dspear99ca Jan 22nd, 2018 1:36 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lelebebbel (Post 6712009)
If the damage is as bad as I am guessing based on oily plug and loss of idle, I'm gonna probably tear the engine right apart and do the oil gallery plug and everything else I didn't get to, maybe some fresh paint..

Well, you still have a couple of months of crap weather until "real" riding season starts. Did you see any metal filings on your oil screen that would indicate that the plug is backing out? I never did on mine in many years of use. It's a lot bigger job than swapping pistons but if you're worried about sand in the bottom end I guess it's gotta' get done.

What a mess.

bradblack Jan 22nd, 2018 3:28 pm

i'd stop with the wildly despondent speculation and give it a leakdown test. that way you'll know if it's bad. they're a lot more durable than many think, and the nikasil is very hard.

Lelebebbel Jan 22nd, 2018 4:13 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradblack (Post 6712289)
i'd stop with the wildly despondent speculation and give it a leakdown test. that way you'll know if it's bad. they're a lot more durable than many think, and the nikasil is very hard.


Yes I hope so. I'll have a compression tester here in a few days. I haven't dropped the oil yet, I want to do the compression reading first.
If it's good there is still the question of the wet spark plug, and the fact that it wouldn't idle, but I guess a lot could be wrong with the mixture and everything if the airbox lid is half coming off and water is being sucked in. Or the ignition for that matter, riding in a rain storm.

What would be the expectation just for straight compression with 11:1 pistons? 150psi or so? I don't have air at home, but if it comes out on there, I'll take it into work and do leakdown as well.


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