I don't get it. I've read many a lot of posts here now and I can't understand why do so many people on this forum despise the liquid cooled 4valve / cylinder models?
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1. What's so glorious about aircooled 2 valve Ducatis? Can someone please educate me?
2. What's so wrong with the better performing engines with over 30-50% more HP and similar torque for roughly the same weight as the 2 valve air cooled engines? Is the maintenance that much harder or more expensive?
FYI: My only bike (first) is the beguiled '02 Sport 900, which i love.
The 996 is the worst streetbike I've ever owned. Ergos mainly. The power is fun but on teh street, I spend more time slowing down than anything else. You have to be flying to make it feel like you're working the bike at all. I haven't got near the skills to push this bike to it's limit and it lets me know that each time I ride it.
When I pull off the fairing it seems stuffed with parts. Fuel injecting, water cooling, twice the number of valves/parts.
The Supersport makes a much better streetbike. To me it's a simpler bike. It's lmiits are nearer to mine. For "normal" use it just makes more sense to me.
That said, you'll notice I'm not selling my 996... That bike makes me happy just looking at it, and for occassional use it's great fun...
The popularity of the Monster range throughout the 90's says a lot about the engine "feel" and the ergonomic reality of streetbikes.
The racing success of the 4 valve engines says as much about going fast.
A Monster with a lc 4V engine? That says,"do what you like!"
Take a deep breath. Don't worry about haters. Buy a Sport Classic and a 848 (nobody needs a 1098, that's just ridiculous and wrong ). Then sell the one you like less. Keep your '92. Is it Red w/Silver? That was the only real color scheem ever! I'm shutting up now:abduct:
"Simplicity, carried to its ultimate extreme."
by: Doctor Taglioni when asked to expound on his attitude towards fundamental engineering design practice.
In practical terms, I believe most recent sporting motorcyles have achieved "escape velocity" for street use and over-engineering solutions to problems that don't exist just to spice up the marketing make no sense to me. Average and even well above average street riders cannot make use of the additional power, brakes and suspension.
Ergos matter, tractibility matters and the subjective visceral take away value (sound, looks) of the bike matters all of which make the SSs winners, at least until they bolted on EFI.
Having said all that, I'm hoping the recent market meltdown chases a lovely original condition '94 916 into my garage
I have a '94 SS and a '99 996 and would sell the 4V long before the SuperSport. I've had 4V guys look down their nose at my SS because it's not the latest, greatest Duc like what they are riding. I think it's mostly they are look-at-me type riders that have that 4V superciliousness. I'm also certain that most of them have never ridden a 2V. A lot of people feel that if it's not posting the highest number on Cycle Worlds comparison chart then it's junk or that buying anything less makes yo a wantabe. I say screw 'em. Just enjoy what you like.
... A lot of people feel that if it's not posting the highest number on Cycle Worlds comparison chart then it's junk or that buying anything less makes yo a wantabe. I say screw 'em. Just enjoy what you like.
Hate is quite a strong word.
I rather prefer the 2V Ducati motor over the 4V.
A project I'd like to complete is a water jacketed SS of some sort. Just..........because.
I believe that has already been done. Several years ago on here someone in south of England (Cornwall with a pirate flag avatar) did that very thing. I don't remember his user name but the thread was superb, ST 4v water-cooled into a SS. Thanks for the reminder, I must look it up again.
I would go along with what the other guys say that have both, and that if I had to pick I would also pick the 2V, value not withstanding. But I love my 955sp. A 916 variant was always on my personal bucket list, and owning an ultra rare one makes it even better. It took a few rides, well maybe more than few, before I could speak 916 at all. Compared to modern superbikes it doesn't make that much power, but it does feel like a purpose built race bike. And it has a sound that has to be experienced to believed, V twin sound with a serious bark to it. And with the light internals it revs very quickly for an old bike.
My SS on the other hand is always fun to ride, and I have never felt like the bike was a power/speed limitation in street riding. Most of my fun roads have 50 to 90 mph curves, with few long straights, so the power isn't an issue. Simple light and torquey is a great recipe.
There is definitely room in my heart for both. Now I need an NCR Sport 1000 and a 999R. And a dual sport. And a truck to carry them.....
2. What's so wrong with the better performing engines with over 30-50% more HP and similar torque for roughly the same weight as the 2 valve air cooled engines? Is the maintenance that much harder or more expensive?
I have a Monster 750,S4,916,748, and a 998 and I love them all. Depends who I ride with is which bike I ride. I do like the rawness of the 748 and 750 if it makes sense, you guys with those probably understand. the S4,916, and the 998 seem to me like they have to have a lot of road to enjoy them. around town the 2 valvers, the highway 4 valve for me.
But, do understand that they are all Ducatis 2 or 4, we are all bikers one and the same...
1. A lot of 2-valvers have deep seeded feelings of insecurity that manifest in hatred towards the 4-valvers they long for, but can't afford
2. A lot of 4-valvers are obnoxious snobs that have more money than skills, so to make up for it they're condescending to the 2-valvers
put another way: the 2-valvers often believe they're the true "Ducatisti" because their bike's roots go back to Stonehenge, while the 4-valvers believe they're the true Ducatisti because theirs are the ones that win all the races and make girls go gooey.
The truth is they're both right. If you own one, any one of any vintage, and you love it, then you know what it's all about and you're a true Ducatisti.
And just like military service automatically makes you a citizen, anyone who has ever performed a valve-job on a Ducati, is also the real-deal in my book!
My riding is all recreational corner carving. I found the SS to be a bit lacking. Power delivery was a bit sluggish, and there wasn't enough of it.
With the 999 I am experiencing Nirvana. The bike is a dream in its element.
The power and delivery, handling, brakes...everything was a revelation for me.
However, I still lust for an older 900SS to sit alongside my 999. To me, the 900SS is the epitome of a sporty road bike, and they are oh-so-pretty! For mellow solo rides through the countryside, the 900SS would be my choice. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the 2v bikes can't hustle...I just prefer my 4v when things really speed up.
Right now, I'm hating both of em.......but thats only due to my 900ss being unrideable due to a crash and gonna be that way for awhile.
To me, they are both serve a purpose. There's a place in my garage for both, like a 1098s, soon I hope. On the street, the 900 does everything I need and quite well. If I get a 1098, its gonna be a track only bike. It's just a waste to use something like that on the street.
The first car that I bought-with the parents $600 gift-was a 69 VW bug. To learn to drive on, and for the first six months of my driving to school, was a 65 corvair. It was a 2 door hardtop that had this goofy-assed automatic shifter that was a 3 inch lever that stuck out from the dash area kinda above the radio. That's an A-effin-M radio. It also had dual one-barrel carbs that were set apart from each other on the far side of the motor. WHICH, by the way.....was in the BACK....of the car. It was SUHHHHHHHH..........weat!
So it appears there isn't really a hatred between the 2V and 4V, well at least not on the Supersport forum, it'd be interesting to see the responses on the superbike forum to such a thread.
For me its more about dry clutch versus wet clutch for what is and isn't a real Duc ...
I can't say I hate any Duke's at all, 2V or 4V. I think we're all part of the Ducati family. I have often thought of selling my bike, but what would I replace it with ? She does everything I want, and just cannot justify replacing her with something newer and ( obviously ) more expensive, just to have something newer.
I think it's just time I started to improve her properly. Treated to newer suspension and maybe just a little more power........
But in my humble opinion, 900SS is the perfect streetbike.
I got a mate I ride with occasionally, with a ZX12R, and anything twisty I gotta keep pulling up to wait for him. 70 at the back, vs 161 !! Go figure.:think:
Well, I would hate to see an SS powered by a 4V watercooled lump.
What is nice about the air-cooled 2V is that it is a lot lighter than a watercooled 4V, and always will be. The 848 is a little lighter than my 999R, but not much, but it is much heavier than my SS. If my SS weighed as much as an 848, I wouldn't see any point in owning it.
Shadowmax,The real Ducatis all have two valves and WET clutches and Genuine Italian electrical systems. And lots of bevel gears and aluminum you can polish.
2V vs. 4V is similar to the old Porsche argument of V8 water cooled vs. flat four oil cooled. They're different and and designed to do the same thing.
I can buy what I want. I LOVE the 2V'ers! I plan to build a New Blue look alike with many of the similar features. I'm building it because that's half the fun! It will always have more soul, IMO, than a 4V. I plan to own a 1098R at some point as well!!
I have a 2V hyper and a 4V Monster ..... I traded a 1098 in for the monster. I like both motors but man do I miss the dry clutch on my 1098. The clutch on the 1098 was louder than the exhaust. It routinely scared women and small children. The hyper isn't as loud for some reason.
I will say this. The air cooled 2V motor is routinely on the list of iconic/legendary designs. I found it pretty easy to work on. I wont touch a 4 valve model (yet). The performance of the Monster is insane. The Hyper asks you to be insane. I love em both.
I also truly must be a black sheep around here as I also have a Harley....Its also a 2v air cooled motor. Ive done a few big ass burnouts on that bike.....pretty funny stuff really !!!
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