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post #61 of 171 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 2015, 9:25 pm
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EightfortyEight posted a CAD file of the TPS mount he developed for his FE restoration. A link is in that thread and the file can be used to 3D print a part. I think he is using separate FCR carbs, but perhaps it will work for racked carbs as well
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post #62 of 171 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 2015, 9:36 pm Thread Starter
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Fastbikegear

Are you going to develop a tps mounting system for the FCRs since Cosentino Engineering doesn't appear to be around anymore? Would you have a contact number for them possibly?
No. I just made mine for my own use. It is not going to be a production unit. I haven't ever dealt with Cosentino engineering so I don't have any contacts for them. I think they developed their system independently from mine, I think their design was both different and probably better than mine.

The Frankencati is pretty much complete now.....But I have one last project I want to do before I move on which is to build and test a cam wheel driven hall effect ignition pick-up system to see if their is any further advantage to getting rid of the wasted spark with my existing ignition setup and also to see if I get even more accurate timing with the hall effect pick-ups.

Parts arrived for this project today and new project bike arrives later this week!

Liam Venter,
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post #63 of 171 (permalink) Old Feb 28th, 2015, 10:34 pm Thread Starter
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Some pics on progress of hall effect pick up system driven off the central cam wheel.
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post #64 of 171 (permalink) Old Mar 1st, 2015, 5:46 am
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Picking up the ignition signal from the cam drive is what is blamed for the 3400rpm hiccup on SSie and 748/916s. Apparently a resonance issue. I had the driven gear off a couple of months ago and it rang like a bell when I tapped it. Everybody in the workshop was fasinated! I might get round to glueing rubber pads into the two holes to act as dampers - we'll see.

It's called a bloody oil GALLERY!
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post #65 of 171 (permalink) Old Mar 1st, 2015, 1:11 pm
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Looking really good Liam!
Let's see the whole thing mounted up on the bike.


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'94 900SS
Marchesini's, FCR's, Staintune, Ignitech
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post #66 of 171 (permalink) Old Mar 1st, 2015, 2:18 pm Thread Starter
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Picking up the ignition signal from the cam drive is what is blamed for the 3400rpm hiccup on SSie and 748/916s. Apparently a resonance issue. I had the driven gear off a couple of months ago and it rang like a bell when I tapped it. Everybody in the workshop was fasinated! I might get round to glueing rubber pads into the two holes to act as dampers - we'll see.
We are picking up off the cam wheel with our Hall effect system not the cam gear. We are primarily doing this because it's easier to retrofit a rotor to the cam wheel on the earlier bikes than convert them to the later Fuel Injected cam gear hall effect triggers.

Not sure how sound resonance could effect magnetic fields? Hall effect sensors are triggered by disturbance to a magnetic field.

I have set up an Ignitech on a later model 750 fuel injected engine that was converted to carburettors and I have heard no reports from the race team that there was any issue with a hiccup at 3400 RPM or there abouts.

One such bike I recently worked on has absolutely no flywheel (it's been totally removed) and it has no hiccup that I know of at 3400rpm. It has other issues at the moment (at much higher revs after a few laps) but I am guessing it's a fuel starvation problem on this particular race bike.

The pickup used on the fuel injected bikes is not my favourite setup for Ignitechs. The pickup used requires a special version of the Ignitech's to work. And I don't think triggering of gear teeth is the best way to do things. A comment made by one of the Ignitech staff recently seemed to suggest they found this pickup finicky to set up the Ignitech's input circuitry for, but given the language barrier I may have misinterpreted his comment. It may also be that the physical positioning of this sensor relative to the cam gear teeth is finicky but I haven't tried playing with shims to move it's position.

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post #67 of 171 (permalink) Old Mar 2nd, 2015, 12:26 pm
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The explaination I have for the hiccup is that there is an alogrythm in the ECU software that decides if the engine is accelerating or decceleration. If there is too much wear in the 1/2 time shaft then there can be a resonance at 3400rpm that confuses the ECU.

Sound is caused by vibration. Have a look on Youtube for something that shows a bell struck and illuminated by a strobe at about the frequency the bell is ringing. You might be surprised by the flex in the bell. I propose that vibration in the gear at 3400rpm is a harmonic of the gear's resonant frequency.

The fueling and ignition can be adjusted to almost remove the hiccup and a MOSFET regulator almost removes it completely.

It's called a bloody oil GALLERY!
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post #68 of 171 (permalink) Old Mar 2nd, 2015, 12:45 pm Thread Starter
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The explaination I have for the hiccup is that there is an alogrythm in the ECU software that decides if the engine is accelerating or decceleration. If there is too much wear in the 1/2 time shaft then there can be a resonance at 3400rpm that confuses the ECU.

Sound is caused by vibration. Have a look on Youtube for something that shows a bell struck and illuminated by a strobe at about the frequency the bell is ringing. You might be surprised by the flex in the bell. I propose that vibration in the gear at 3400rpm is a harmonic of the gear's resonant frequency.

The fueling and ignition can be adjusted to almost remove the hiccup and a MOSFET regulator almost removes it completely.
If the problem you encountered is caused by a mechanical resonance causing an issue with a pickup, then I don't see how adjusting the fuelling or a change to a MOSFET regulator would fix an erratic pickup signal caused by this mechanical resonance? If a MOSFET regulator fixes the problem then surely the problem isn't likely to be a mechanical resonance one?

Yes it's plausible (but not likely) that a mechanical resonance could cause issues with the pickup, but the cure would not be to adjust fuelling or change the regulator.

There are lots of other electrical and magnetic factors such as hystereisis or even resonance in the electrical circuit (that you definitely wouldn't hear) that are more likely to cause issues. I would think you would need a scope with a good bandwidth and sampling rate to observe and analyse these issues.

As they say 'you never know what you don't know' so maybe I am missing something in your explanation.

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post #69 of 171 (permalink) Old Mar 2nd, 2015, 3:35 pm
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I went through that reasoning myself. Then I got a bit deeper.

The fueling/ignition adjustments made my bikes run a bit smoother so that might help reduce any resonance. As for the MOSFET regulator. This made the bikes A LOT more pleasant - especially the SS. My suspicion is that the original regulator was not intended for bikes with fuel injection and so probably doesn't have a very smooth voltage. The MOSFET regulator was meant for a Yamaha R1 which has fuel injection and so should have a smoother voltage more suited to giving the sensors a clean supply. I would expect this to help the ECU make up its mind which way the acceleration is going with more accuracy. I should probably have rigged up the sillyscope and had a look at what really was happening Curiosity might get the better of me again here.

It's called a bloody oil GALLERY!

Last edited by Serious Black; Mar 2nd, 2015 at 3:42 pm.
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post #70 of 171 (permalink) Old Mar 2nd, 2015, 3:36 pm
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The explaination I have for the hiccup is that there is an alogrythm in the ECU software that decides if the engine is accelerating or decceleration. If there is too much wear in the 1/2 time shaft then there can be a resonance at 3400rpm that confuses the ECU.

Sound is caused by vibration. Have a look on Youtube for something that shows a bell struck and illuminated by a strobe at about the frequency the bell is ringing. You might be surprised by the flex in the bell. I propose that vibration in the gear at 3400rpm is a harmonic of the gear's resonant frequency.

The fueling and ignition can be adjusted to almost remove the hiccup and a MOSFET regulator almost removes it completely.
All this was interesting but I did laugh when I read your signature, "It called a bloody oil GALLERY!"

'95 900 SS - one day a Caf Racer!
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