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post #21 of 171 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 2013, 7:33 am
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Try opening and comparing the .ign files on each PC with a basic text editor and check they look identical. If your not sure hew to do this you can email them to me and I will check them for you.
Even if I take a file that works on my 'good' laptop and copy it to and load that directly from the 'bad' one, the problem is the same.

The Ignitech software just doesn't run right on the 'bad' laptop, no idea why it is only a year old and running Windows 7 and works fine on everything else - I have tried deleting/re-installing etc. to no avail and Ignitech said they'd never seen the problem before.

However I'm certain it's an IT/Windows/Samsung problem rather than an Ignitech one but it had us stumped the first time I took the bike to the dyno as it just wouldn't run right and we didn't have another computer at the time.

We did initially suspect the Ignitech unit to be faulty as swapping it with a known good unit from a running bike cured the problem, however re-programming mine from another PC also cured the problem and it's been fine since.

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post #22 of 171 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 2013, 4:33 pm Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DukeDesmo View Post
Even if I take a file that works on my 'good' laptop and copy it to and load that directly from the 'bad' one, the problem is the same.

The Ignitech software just doesn't run right on the 'bad' laptop, no idea why it is only a year old and running Windows 7 and works fine on everything else - I have tried deleting/re-installing etc. to no avail and Ignitech said they'd never seen the problem before.

However I'm certain it's an IT/Windows/Samsung problem rather than an Ignitech one but it had us stumped the first time I took the bike to the dyno as it just wouldn't run right and we didn't have another computer at the time.

We did initially suspect the Ignitech unit to be faulty as swapping it with a known good unit from a running bike cured the problem, however re-programming mine from another PC also cured the problem and it's been fine since.
The issue I had seems slightly different from yours, but in the interests of accumulating knowledge in one thread...

On the one occasion I had the corrupted .ign file no amount of editing it via the Ignitech windows software seemed to fix it and reloading it multiple times didn't fix it. Jan sent me replacement firmware that boot loaded into the Ignitech. I then sucked a fresh .ign file off another unit and loaded into the unit that had been playing up. I then edited that to what I needed and have had no problems ever since.

I suspect that the unit originally got corrupted due to having it sitting right next to my coils in the battery box. I have since repositioned the coils on to the sides of the frame away from the Ignitech.
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post #23 of 171 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 2013, 5:06 am
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Actually, due to these issues, plus I was having problems getting a steady tacho reading (tacho or interefence problem?) and I still get a bit of 'scatter'. I bought a new Ignitech to confirm/deny that there maybe a problem with the original.

The latest unit is V88 and the software is not compatible with V80 (don't know what the differences are?) however either unit runs exactly the same although I still have the same issues with the Samsung laptop on V88.

Anyway scatter aside, I have managed to get around the tacho issue (by programming -50% correction) and the bike runs fine and I feel more 'comfortable' having a spare ignition, just in case one should fail.

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post #24 of 171 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 2013, 5:28 am Thread Starter
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Actually, due to these issues, plus I was having problems getting a steady tacho reading (tacho or interefence problem?) and I still get a bit of 'scatter'. I bought a new Ignitech to confirm/deny that there maybe a problem with the original.

The latest unit is V88 and the software is not compatible with V80 (don't know what the differences are?) however either unit runs exactly the same although I still have the same issues with the Samsung laptop on V88.

Anyway scatter aside, I have managed to get around the tacho issue (by programming -50% correction) and the bike runs fine and I feel more 'comfortable' having a spare ignition, just in case one should fail.
The V88 units run different firmware and hardware. They have a number of extended features most of which are undocumented in Ignitechs manual (which they didn't update) and most of which are accessed by selecting 'special settings' where you would normally select the bike type, it's the last option in the list of bikes. Once you select it you will notice you get access to a number of advanced features.

Hmm certainly seems your problem is computer related...possibly the com port or USB converter incompatibility (if you are using a USB cable). Obviously not telling you anything you haven't already established.

Again not likely to be related to your scatter problem....I have seen severe scatter (viewed with a timing light). Using a timing light I have with an ultra sensitive sensor on the pick up wires I was able to verify that the pick ups were providing a very erratic signal to the Ignitech unit.

I completely resolved the scatter issue and got rock solid timing by reducing the pick up gap on the bike from 0.8 mm to between 0.5mm and 0.6 mm. Made an amazing difference to the way the bike ran at all revs.

Last edited by FastBikeGear; Aug 24th, 2013 at 5:36 am.
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post #25 of 171 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 2013, 6:25 am
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Thanks, I don't suppose any of the extra features in the V88 are required for my setup anyway.

The scatter is visible with a timing light and seems more so at low RPM although oil splash stops me seeing anything above a certain speed.

Due to the tacho output giving me problems on my Translogic dash (it would randomly 'reset' on start up and then give me double the RPM reading) I tried connecting to the coil outputs, as recommended by Translogic (and as I do on my 916 with no problem) however the readings were all over the place with huge spikes which, I assume, is due to interference?

I found that if I set the tacho output to -50% it remains constant, so that seems good now.

I have tried moving the pickup cables and HT leads to distance them from each other plus I have fitted ferrite chokes on the pickup cable but I'm not sure if that made any difference?

I have 0.4mm gap on the pickups but the pickups are old (1995 engine) so could be an issue, that said the bike runs fine, especially since I fitted a TPS to the one of the carbs.

Overall I'm happy with the performance of the Ignitech and any scatter doesn't seem to cause any performance related problems as the bike pulls cleanly and strongly at all revs (makes more power & torque than my 916 up to 6k) and the engine picks up instantly.

The only slight issue is occasional backfiring through the carbs at low RPM and small throttle openings (e.g. under 3k in 4th gear on steady throttle) but this is probably a combination of carbs, short intakes, cam timing, compression, light flywheel and ignition timing but it's not a problem as the bike doesn't need (or like) to run at those speeds.

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post #26 of 171 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 2013, 8:56 am
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What carbs are you running?

The backfiring is likely caused by a combination of leanness of the needle straight dia if you are running fcr's and the wasted spark design of the carb model ignition. I had it but it went away by swiching to needles with a richer straight diameter.
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post #27 of 171 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 2013, 12:01 pm
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What carbs are you running?

The backfiring is likely caused by a combination of leanness of the needle straight dia if you are running fcr's and the wasted spark design of the carb model ignition. I had it but it went away by swiching to needles with a richer straight diameter.
Split single FCR41s on short manifolds, we did pay particular attention to mixture when on the dyno and it is running on the rich side everywhere but I have ST2 cams which I reckon may not be as good for low speed running as the Monster cams but it makes pretty good power and with a good spread of torque.

The backfire is only occasional and only a 'small' one which only happens if I'm running slowly in too high a gear on a steady throttle, it doesn't happen on closed throttle or if accelerating (most of the time!).

In case you're interested, I have attached a dyno print out, although we did up the jetting slightly after this to make it richer (don't have a printout) but power remained the same.

Blue is with no filters and red is with filters fitted;



The engine was newly built at the dyno time with only a couple of hundred miles and it has now loosened up nicely plus I have since fitted a TPS which makes it ride better - not sure if the power is any better now? I need to get back to the dyno soon with some other filter options...

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post #28 of 171 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 2013, 12:12 pm
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The dyno graph shows only full throttle afr (main jet) so you may well be lean on the needle diameter. This is the case on both 41's and 39's with the EMT needles they come with, but I have not verified it with split carbs.

Probably no dyno tuner will change the needles even if they are not optimal for the bike. I suggest you try the EMR needles. The 39's will need even EMQ to avoid the leanness. A too lean needle diameter will cause backfiring exactly in the conditions you describe.
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post #29 of 171 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 2013, 2:09 pm Thread Starter
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Thanks, I don't suppose any of the extra features in the V88 are required for my setup anyway.

The scatter is visible with a timing light and seems more so at low RPM although oil splash stops me seeing anything above a certain speed.
P
I have 0.4mm gap on the pickups but the pickups are old (1995 engine) so could be an issue, that said the bike runs fine, especially since I fitted a TPS to the one of the carbs.

Overall I'm happy with the performance of the Ignitech and any scatter doesn't seem to cause any performance related problems as the bike pulls cleanly and strongly at all revs (makes more power & torque than my 916 up to 6k) and the engine picks up instantly.

The only slight issue is occasional backfiring through the carbs at low RPM and small throttle openings (e.g. under 3k in 4th gear on steady throttle) but this is probably a combination of carbs, short intakes, cam timing, compression, light flywheel and ignition.
Your timing can and should be rock solid. When I had my scatter issue I thought it was only at low revs because like you that was all I could observe and I only noticed the bike doing the soft backfire thing below 4000 rpm. But once I fixed the problem it was evident that it had been occurring unnoticed throughout the rev range as the extra power I suddenly got everywhere was delightful.

That pickup gap needs to be set with a wire gauge as a flat gauge inserted into a curved space will not measure correctly.

Incidentally it seemed the Kukasans are much more tolerant of a weak pickup signal as the scatter only occurred with the Ignitech. Whenever I swapped the Ignitech back in the scatter went away.

Fix your scatter problem....there is no need to have it. You could try Ignitech's replacement pick ups. They are 400 ohm from memory and should provide a stronger signal (more wiring turns).

Yep adding a TPS certainly makes a big difference. With the TPS fitted and the Scatter problem fixed my engine runs more smoothly than the fuel injected Hyperstrada I rode last week.

Spike out of interest did you ever do a before and after comparison with the ST2 cams ....I am thinking they might be the next thing to play with.
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post #30 of 171 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 2013, 4:03 pm
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The dyno graph shows only full throttle afr (main jet) so you may well be lean on the needle diameter. This is the case on both 41's and 39's with the EMT needles they come with, but I have not verified it with split carbs.

Probably no dyno tuner will change the needles even if they are not optimal for the bike. I suggest you try the EMR needles. The 39's will need even EMQ to avoid the leanness. A too lean needle diameter will cause backfiring exactly in the conditions you describe.
Thanks, actually the 'spec' list is wrong on that chart, actual carb setup is as follows;

Main Jet; 165
Main Air Jet; 200
Slow Jet; 60
Needle; OCELV
Needle Clip; 5th from top
Fuel screw; 1 1/2 turns out
Slow Air Screw; 1-1/2 turns out
Float height; 9mm

We made these changes to stop it running lean, didn't gain any power but made sure the AFR was not too high as I don't want to melt anything! We spent time ensuring that under load at lower RPM (3k, 4k etc) it was OK, as before it would run way too lean.

If anything it's rich overall (although I think the accelerator pumps exaggerate this) and the tailpipe colouring would confirm that although that's not to say there could be times when it's lean?

I wanted to get some miles on it and make a few changes, particularly the filters as I'm not too happy with them (but space is an issue) but I plan to get back to the dyno soon, maybe I should try some new needles - the thing is achieving (near) perfection is going to be time consuming.

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