Modern Supersport vs. SportClassic Supersport - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
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post #1 of 89 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 2007, 8:09 pm Thread Starter
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Modern Supersport vs. SportClassic Supersport

I know this is a topic that's been discussed before in other threads, but in a sort of roundabout way. I know rz33v4 is a big proponent of a new modern Supersport, and, frankly, that's really the only bike that I'd consider replacing my '96 SP with and I'd like to think there are others who feel the same way. A SportClassic-based Supersport does not interest me; I like the SC line but it's not an SS. The SS needs to be a modern motorcycle in every way, not a warmed-over redesign of a classic.

Using the Triumph 675 as a marketplace model is interesting; a new displacement category was created, with no regard for racetrack supremacy as there are currently no classes where the 675 would be considered as a frontrunner. I know there are some being raced in 750 classes and in 'run-what-you-brung' categories but there is no 675cc Superbike class. This is a motorcycle that has won many Bike of the Year awards and seems to be universally praised in the motorcycle press. Imagine a thoroughly modern Supersport created using the same thought process: modern aesthetic design, top shelf suspension and wheels all combined with one of the best motorcycle mills to ever be produced, the 1000ds (or 1100) air-cooled v-twin we all know and love.

I've certainly heard all the arguments against Ducati building this bike, "It'll never sell", "Nobody wants to buy a 95hp $12,000 twin", "Why don't you just get a SportClassic and install modern suspension and wheels" and on and on.

I don't think it'll happen, and I'm not holding my breath while waiting, but I'd like to think that somewhere within the bowels of Ducati there's someone who wants to build the new SuperSport.

Here are some illustrations for consideration from the talented pen of Oberdan Bezzi.
http://www.designerspace.com/pages/3...ortfolios.html

http://www.docgb.org/photo_gallery/bezzi.htm
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post #2 of 89 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 2007, 8:28 pm
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Beautiful designs indeed, but of course you're thinking with your heart and not your head. It's all about power. On this forum, we may appreciate an ultralight 2 valve twin that feels like it's part of the rider, but alas nobody else will (unless it has 150+ hp at the rear wheel).

As I've said before, any machine is only as sophisticated as its operator. Close to 0% of amateur motorcyclists can use that kind of power, but close to 100% of those that have it believe they can.

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post #3 of 89 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 2007, 8:43 pm
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Ditto What He Said

Ditto:

And most of them only go in a straight line and never enjoy how the bike handles in turns! Or on the Track.

Rookie's

On my 750Monster people would think that is was a 900Monster and my 750 was a 5spd and I could smoke the others(box store bikes) out of the hole but high speeds they kill me going straight,Back Roads they be looking at my brake light.
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post #4 of 89 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 2007, 9:16 pm
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Oh my yes...very pretty drawings indeed.

But in a way conceptually very similar to the DS-1000 powered Bimota DB5, no? Just missing some of the particularly expensive bits, such as the Bimota's Ohlins forks and trellis swingarm.

I agree that such bikes would be fantastic if Ducati wanted to make them. It wouldn't be much of a trick to get 75 ft-lbs and 100 rwhp out of a DS1100 engine, which would be plenty. But I also agree that they would likely sell no more than a few thousand of them. Most sportbike buyers just aren't as sophisticated as us lovers of the 2V air cooled Ducs.

To some extent I buy into the notion that Ducati held back the potential of the SS1000 so that it wouldn't make the 749 look weak in comparison. Waste of a really good concept IMHO. But let's face it - they hit the mark with the SC line. Take the "retro" engine and wrap it in retro styling, so it doesn't have to apologize anymore for its performance. Brilliant from a marketing standpoint....given the current state of the market.

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post #5 of 89 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2007, 12:12 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by critterdoc
Beautiful designs indeed, but of course you're thinking with your heart and not your head. It's all about power. On this forum, we may appreciate an ultralight 2 valve twin that feels like it's part of the rider, but alas nobody else will (unless it has 150+ hp at the rear wheel).

As I've said before, any machine is only as sophisticated as its operator. Close to 0% of amateur motorcyclists can use that kind of power, but close to 100% of those that have it believe they can.
I don't know about the whole 'ultralight' thing (my 800 weighs pretty much the same as a GSXR1000), but I'm with you re: The Quest For Power." I've been fantasizing for years that Yamaha will come out with an R4 400cc bike with all of the technology that goes into the bigger bikes...but it will never happen for the reasons you state above.
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post #6 of 89 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2007, 7:10 am
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Very nice artistic renderings, but that exhaust would never work routed through the swing arm like that - the swing arm moves through an arc, remember?

I'll take issue with the assumption that no one would buy this bike (styling like a DB5, truly light weight (how about 375# full of all fluids?), a DS1000 or 1100 motor, up-to-date chassis hardware.

From a marketing standpoint, it always helps to have a unique selling proposition and this concept does - lightweight and torquey. What other bike has specs like this? Not one (except the NCR Milona and Bimota DB5, both unaffordable).

If Ducati can cater to the 'Motard niche, why not this one? And this speaks to their historical past/racing victories. All it would take is unique bodywork and the same attention to mass reduction shown on the 1098. Investment, yes, but not an all-new machine.
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post #7 of 89 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2007, 7:26 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dietDrThunder
I don't know about the whole 'ultralight' thing (my 800 weighs pretty much the same as a GSXR1000)
I was referring to the SS as envisioned in this thread, not as is.
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post #8 of 89 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2007, 7:27 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rz33v4
From a marketing standpoint, it always helps to have a unique selling proposition and this concept does - lightweight and torquey. What other bike has specs like this? Not one (except the NCR Milona and Bimota DB5, both unaffordable).

If Ducati can cater to the 'Motard niche, why not this one? And this speaks to their historical past/racing victories. All it would take is unique bodywork and the same attention to mass reduction shown on the 1098. Investment, yes, but not an all-new machine.
I'm with you. Italian bikes have proved that it's not all about horsepower. Many times. If they just make buyers realise this, and the handling, styling and weight is right.

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post #9 of 89 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2007, 9:02 am
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The thing I like about this proposal is that it is akin to the Triumph 675; when the big guys zig, you zag!

With the Japanese so focused on 600 supersport performance/sales, there is a hole in the marketplace for a sporty, light and torquey streetbike just waiting for a manufacturer to pounce.
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post #10 of 89 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2007, 10:03 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSsssp
The SS needs to be a modern motorcycle in every way, not a warmed-over redesign of a classic.
I don't quite agree that the current SS is really modern, unless you were implying it could be updated without losing its character. 2V/cylinder, air/oil cooled and linkageless rear shock aren't cutting edge, but the bike is still great with what most sportbike owners would consider archaic technology. ABS isn't necessary for most SS owners, but exhaust catalysts, closed loop feedback, and variable geometry for exhaust or intake would be necessary to call it modern. In fact, rider swappable maps and variable traction control will probably be standard on lots of sportbikes in the next 2 or 3 years.
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