Options for 999 Clutch Master Cylinder Replacement - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old May 30th, 2017, 8:54 am Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Ailsa Craig, ON, Canada
Posts: 26
Options for 999 Clutch Master Cylinder Replacement

Hi Everyone,

I've spent several days researching this topic, both on this forum and elsewhere, and feel compelled to start a new thread to consolidate the information.

Background: I just picked up a 2003 999 with 14,900kms on it. On my first ride, I was caught by surprise when the bike randomly stalled while downshifting to first at a stoplight. The bike has had the valves adjusted, timing belt replaced, was dyno tuned to richen up the idle mixture and seems to idle very well in neutral. After a few more days and a few more stalls, I found I was unable to downshift below fourth gear. That's when the lightbulb went off and I realized that my clutch was likely not fully disengaging. Sure enough, bleeding the master cylinder in the reservoir and then bleeding the slave cylinder had it working perfectly again...for about the next 60kms. I don't see any external fluid leaks, but the system is definitely ingesting air somehow.

About the bike: Factory master cylinder with aftermarket aluminum reservoir cover, adjustable Pazzo clutch lever (which I have set for maximum stroke right now), new Oberon 29mm slave cylinder, new clutch hose, new crush washers, new Barnett clutch assembly and new throwout bearing. When I say new, I mean one year old with less than 800km of riding. I have flushed and bled the system using Motul RBF600.

The fact that everything works beautifully immediately following a bleed has me convinced that the clutch itself isn't a problem. Does it seem logical that replacing the master cylinder is my next step?

My question for the community here is: what is the generally preferred resolution to master cylinder issues? The options I have come up with are:

1. Order a new OEM 999 master cylinder that will fit up with no problems. I've read some anecdotes on this forum that service parts are of better quality than the original on my 2003 bike. Is this true? This sounds like the easiest approach and I still get to keep the clutch safety switch.

2. Retrofit a Brembo RCS 16 master cylinder. I've read several accounts of riders having issues with the cylinder limiting steering angles and the lever interfering with the LH switch assembly. There's also the hassle of sourcing and mounting a remote reservoir. Finally, I know that this will increase clutch effort to an extent. Is it worth all the hassle? Will this prevent me from having to bleed my clutch before every ride for good? It seems that I will lose the clutch safety switch with the aftermarket solution. I also can't use my Pazzo lever...I could see this leading to replacing the brake master cylinder with an aftermarket assembly as well.

3. Retrofit a master cylinder and reservoir from a newer superbike (e.g. an 1198 or 1199). I've found one account of this working out well, with the complaint of mismatched lever aesthetics. Will my Pazzo lever fit a newer model's master cylinder?

For those of you who have been here, what was your experience and what do you recommend? Is it possible to have a worry-free/trouble-free clutch on a 999? I've never had to sweat wondering whether or not my clutch is up for a ride. I live out in a rural area, but my ride into work does lead me through a city and I need more reasonable stoplight manners.

Thanks for sharing your wisdom! Cheers.
ccaipd likes this.
RestoRoc89 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old May 30th, 2017, 10:56 am
Senior Member
 
Nikk11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Adelaide, Sth Australia, Australia
Posts: 418
Garage
https://www.ducati.ms/forums/56-super...tml?highlight=

You could always try this ,, it worked for Rigo

2000 996
The best views are seen from within a motorcycle helmet
Nikk11 is offline  
post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old May 30th, 2017, 11:38 am Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Ailsa Craig, ON, Canada
Posts: 26
Thanks for sharing, Nikk11. Rigo's thread was the one that gave me the idea to consider an 1198 master cylinder. I was hoping for an instant gratification/guaranteed fix here since I'm anxious to start putting on miles...but there's definitely no harm in trying to rebuild my existing assembly as a backup plan. I'll see about ordering that Brembo rebuild kit.

I'd love to see some pictures of different clutch cylinders installed on a 999. My bike is a total mutt anyhow (2006 999S fairings, 2005 swing arm conversion, Marchesini wheels, lots of carbon fiber and powdercoating, etc).
Nikk11 and JRW00089 like this.

Last edited by RestoRoc89; May 30th, 2017 at 11:48 am.
RestoRoc89 is offline  
 
post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old May 30th, 2017, 5:16 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Ailsa Craig, ON, Canada
Posts: 26
To follow up on Option 1 (stock replacement), I visited my local dealer today. They will sell me a Ducati replacement clutch cylinder for $550 CAD...which is actually cheaper for me than the OEM parts I've found on ebay for $490 USD (the current exchange rate makes me cry). The parts guy confirmed that the spare has a revised part number. It's different in some way from the original equipment on my bike, but he had no insight into the engineering change history. Any Ducati engineers on here??

I'm starting to lean towards making the RCS 16 work and rebuilding the stock assembly for fun.
RestoRoc89 is offline  
post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old May 30th, 2017, 9:19 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Ailsa Craig, ON, Canada
Posts: 26
Well, change in plans again. I just found a decent deal on a clutch master cylinder assembly (incl. reservoir and safety switch) from a 1098S. I believe that my existing Pazzo lever will work on this assembly and that it shouldn't interfere with the handlebar switch. I'm slated to get it next Monday. I'll post pictures of the fit-up and let you all know how it works.

I largely feel like I am talking to myself today, but perhaps this will help the next person with clutch hydraulics issues. I've also ordered the notional rebuild parts for my stock master cylinder for fun.
jahjah likes this.
RestoRoc89 is offline  
post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old May 30th, 2017, 9:22 pm
Just visiting your planet.
 
Yorik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Woodstock, NY, USA
Posts: 8,261
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by RestoRoc89 View Post
I largely feel like I am talking to myself today, but perhaps this will help the next person with clutch hydraulics issues.
That's how it goes sometimes. You shouldn't feel offended. It'll come in handy for someone later.

2005 ST3
2003 749s
Yorik is offline  
post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old May 30th, 2017, 11:33 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Petaluma, CA, USA
Posts: 550
I will chime in with just a few suggestions or insights, since no one else is. I have owned several 999's over the years, my first Ducati being a 2003 999. I know there are many 999 haters out there, so the foregoing is strictly my unbiased opinion of possible solutions to problems that I have experienced and that have been discussed on this forum from 10 years prior.

1. To properly bleed the 999 brake or clutch master cylinder of air, you need to use the bleeder nut hidden inside the fluid reservoir that many people are unaware of. Reading your post once again, it appears that you have done this. Bleeding 999 Oem master cylinders has been problematic from way back. Most riders, myself included, upgrade the clutch master to a Brembo 16x18 billet unit. These are expensive units these days, if at all available, but the RCS Brembo unit is also a great option. I have also used a 1098 Oem unit with great success. I don't think I would waste my time or money on a 999 Oem Brembo rebuild.
On all my 999's, I have upgraded both masters and clutch slave with Brembo and Stm units, which have performed flawlessly.

2.The 999 bikes all suffered from stalling at stoplights, especially if upgraded with a half or full system. A Dyno tune with proper fuel mapping definitely helps, but before any of that, you need to make sure your TPS is properly zero'd out and then reset. I had this problem on my first 999 with a Termi half system and DP Ecu. Doing the TPS reset cured the stoplight stalling once and for all.

3. Clutch plate stack height is also important on these bikes as it to can cause stalling issues. I have always had a slipper clutch in my 999's which I strongly recommend. With a slipper, the clutch plate stack height and orientation is important. I cannot comment on a non slipper Oem unit, as I have never had one.

These are just a few things to look at to resolve the issues you describe. I am no master mechanic, but I have build several Ducatis from the ground up with trial and error success. Let me know how things work out for you, and on a side note, I have lots of 999 parts that I have collected over the years. Let me know if you need something in particular. Ironically I do have a brand new, in the box, 1098 brake master cylinder that would match your 1098 clutch master. Remote clutch reservoirs are easily resolved with the 1098/1198 units or Rizoma units. The clutch switch is also a easy fix with a aftermarket hydraulic unit that goes into your hydraulic banjo fitting.

Good luck!
SittingDuc is offline  
post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old May 31st, 2017, 12:26 am Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Ailsa Craig, ON, Canada
Posts: 26
Many thanks, SittingDuc! This is exactly the type of wisdom I've been hoping to find. It's very encouraging to hear that clutch and stoplight issues CAN be resolved.

Do you have any pictures you could share of your Brembo billet master cylinder integration? Can you still pull the levers all the way to the grips?

While you now have me wishing I had just splurged on the Brembo RCS solution, I have hope that my incoming $100 1098 master should do the trick. If it does, I will send you a PM regarding the 1098 brake master that you have.
RestoRoc89 is offline  
post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old Jun 1st, 2017, 11:20 pm
Senior Member
 
DMCTRUBY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brookfield, CT, USA
Posts: 1,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by RestoRoc89 View Post
Many thanks, SittingDuc! This is exactly the type of wisdom I've been hoping to find. It's very encouraging to hear that clutch and stoplight issues CAN be resolved.

Do you have any pictures you could share of your Brembo billet master cylinder integration? Can you still pull the levers all the waay to the grips?

While you now have me wishing I had just splurged on the Brembo RCS solution, I have hope that my incoming $100 1098 master should do the trick. If it does, I will send you a PM regarding the 1098 brake master that you have.
Some 999 master cyls seem to be worse than others. Owned 4 999. Base, two s models and now my R Xerox. Best solution is to ditch the stock master. That is expensive and on one my 999s I just popped the master cyl cover off and used the bolt at the bottom of the res to bleed out air. I did that every other ride (takes 2 mins)'and I never had a stall in 16k miles on that bike. That is the cheapo solution. The real solution is as stated is the Brembo RCS

2006 999r Xerox. 57 mm full termi.
DMCTRUBY is offline  
post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old Jun 2nd, 2017, 6:19 am
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: DePere, WI, USA
Posts: 1,923
I bought both the brake and clutch masters from a 1098 and put them on my 749s.....I hate the coffin masters on those bikes!!!!!
Viper1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OBERON Clutch Slave Cylinder: Ducati moto Vendor Deals 0 Nov 1st, 2016 11:22 pm

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome