1098s-2007 Vertical cylinder removal & disassembly - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 2013, 12:46 am Thread Starter
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1098s-2007 Vertical cylinder removal & disassembly

Hello all!

I 've been having a little adventure these last few months that has come to a conclusion. My bike has been burning oil and lately too much - up to 1L/1500Km. My research showed that it could either be the valve seals or piston/springs/cylinder issue. When i heard the prices from the workshops for just opening the motor to see, i knew i had to take things into my own hands.

I started with a spark plug removal/compression test. As expected, one plug was oil fouled (click for full resolution):





So i knew the vertical cylinder has the issue. Compression was low on both but unfortunately i checked with the bike cold. First time i did that so mistakes might have been made. 175psi for the horizontal 150 for the vertical. Bad eh?

Onto the actions. With this excellent workshop manual (not the ducati one - the one rewritten with all the photos) i started. I have ome previous experience disassembling fairings and small service but never gone deeper.

- removed fairings
- removed tank
- removed airbox
- removed exhaust pipes from vertical cylinder
- removed belt covers
- removed belts (didn't know its THAT easy)
- removed some coolant
- removed cylinder head cover.....

And as i reached there and witnessed the desmodromic awesomeness i stopped yesterday. A total work of only 4 hours took me there. Here's a bad pic but i 'll post more:





So you people have some questons to answer now! :P

1. Is there an alternative for this freaking tool:



I mean i can remove the head now with other tools, but how on earth will i put a torque wrench there to assemble without it?

2. Is there ANYTHING i am forgetting?? I made a list of what new parts i will need for reassembly (besides what's damaged of course):

- head-cylinder and head cover gaskets
- gasket glue (i will research that)
- coolant
- oil
- spark plugs
- exhaust cleaning (they are full of oily fumes)

3. The facts are: fouled plug, white smoke from exhaust on high revs, greasy stuff in exhausts, oil consumption, oily air filter box walls (but clean air filter), oil on top of intake valves (and some smaller amount in the horizontal cylinder as well - i 'll post pics). So are my actions correct? do i need to be worried for the horizontal cylinder as well?

4. Will it give any errors when i turn it on again after assembly?

Anyway this has been fun to be honest and free :P And from what i saw valve clearances is also easy to check/fix. Thanks for reading - more to come!

2007 1098S
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 2013, 2:00 am
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Maybe new gaskets for the intake and exhaust? They are usually only a couple of bucks.

Before removing the head, I'd be inclined to do a leakdown test. You should be able to determine whether it is the rings/cylinder or the valves. Be much easier to pinpoint where the fault lies unless it is really obvious when disassembled!
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 2013, 2:09 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukemillar View Post
Maybe new gaskets for the intake and exhaust? They are usually only a couple of bucks.

Before removing the head, I'd be inclined to do a leakdown test. You should be able to determine whether it is the rings/cylinder or the valves. Be much easier to pinpoint where the fault lies unless it is really obvious when disassembled!
hey. ok nice idea perhaps i ll buy those gaskets also.

I figured that a leakdown test doesn't show if it loses oil from valve seals. It just shows from where the air escapes and you lose compression. Anyway nobody had the tool here so i skipped it, i think the problem will be visible/measurable for so much oil quantity burned.

edit: by the way what's a good place to buy parts in europe or usa online? will it will be cheaper for oem parts than the workshop?

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 2013, 12:53 pm Thread Starter
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Disassemble complete, here are more pics. The oil ring was stuck inside (not free like the other 2 compression rings) and the piston has a wear on the side below the rings area and at the same point the piston case has wear as well. It also feels different by hand. The valve seals looked fine by eye and soft.

I want to believe that it is just the ring, or maybe a small grinding of the piston case will do the job :/ otherwise i am looking into 1500+ Tomorrow i will have a first opinion from the workshop and maybe a measurement of the case. Wish me luck














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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 2013, 2:24 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzion View Post
edit: by the way what's a good place to buy parts in europe or usa online? will it will be cheaper for oem parts than the workshop?
I'd go here:

Ducati Omaha - Ducati OEM Parts Ordering System - Parts Fiche

They ship internationally and given the exchange rates, are pretty competitive
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 8th, 2013, 12:28 pm Thread Starter
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so ok... i took the cylinder for measurement with the piston. guy said that it can only be shined not grinded, and that i would definitely need new piston because the oil rings damaged it. BUT he insisted i need to fix both cylinders and get 2 new pistons.....

now i am into some deep expenses as it seems. any aftermarket piston recommendations? i dont think ducati will fit now.

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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 8th, 2013, 1:56 pm
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Originally Posted by fuzion View Post
so ok... i took the cylinder for measurement with the piston. guy said that it can only be shined not grinded, and that i would definitely need new piston because the oil rings damaged it. BUT he insisted i need to fix both cylinders and get 2 new pistons.....

now i am into some deep expenses as it seems. any aftermarket piston recommendations? i dont think ducati will fit now.
*

Aftemarket everyday, there are options, relax.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 8th, 2013, 2:12 pm Thread Starter
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i really wanted to check what my options are really, and i would appreciate some help from here.

Ok i had bad luck or there was something done to the bike from previous owners. I have to get past that. I want to do something that will fix my bike and not worry about the future... and i don't care about better performance.

as i see it:

1. i have 1 good piston-cylinder with 21000km. if i buy a used set from ebay there will be compression differences or bad used part, uncertain future, still a cheap solution (under $500 total parts - gaskets etc)

2. i "fix" the bad cylinder (guy said it will be ok), make the good one same diameter, buy 2 pistons and install. which pistons? the shop i went for measurement had lots of brands but he suggested some $200/piston ones forged aluminum unknown brand. maybe they make them there, i will ask tomorrow. I searched for aftermarket sets but i didn't see any options for "size", something that the shop said i should buy 1 size larger due to the fix i will have to do to my cylinder. By the way it's one of the most well known shops here for engine overhauling and rectifier etc...

3. i buy 1 or 2 new cylinder-piston assemblys from ducati. 1500-3000 cost, out of the question (i d rather grind the bad cyl and put the old piston in and let it burn oil)


so what's all the deal with aftermarket larger piston sets, nicasil material fixing, and what would you suggest? any answers greatly appreciated

edit: and if there's some shop in europe/us i could send the items to fix+fit pistons with rings that could also be a solution

2007 1098S

Last edited by fuzion; Oct 8th, 2013 at 3:02 pm.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 9th, 2013, 3:03 pm
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Originally Posted by fuzion View Post
i really wanted to check what my options are really, and i would appreciate some help from here.

Ok i had bad luck or there was something done to the bike from previous owners. I have to get past that. I want to do something that will fix my bike and not worry about the future... and i don't care about better performance.

as i see it:

1. i have 1 good piston-cylinder with 21000km. if i buy a used set from ebay there will be compression differences or bad used part, uncertain future, still a cheap solution (under $500 total parts - gaskets etc)

2. i "fix" the bad cylinder (guy said it will be ok), make the good one same diameter, buy 2 pistons and install. which pistons? the shop i went for measurement had lots of brands but he suggested some $200/piston ones forged aluminum unknown brand. maybe they make them there, i will ask tomorrow. I searched for aftermarket sets but i didn't see any options for "size", something that the shop said i should buy 1 size larger due to the fix i will have to do to my cylinder. By the way it's one of the most well known shops here for engine overhauling and rectifier etc...

3. i buy 1 or 2 new cylinder-piston assemblys from ducati. 1500-3000 cost, out of the question (i d rather grind the bad cyl and put the old piston in and let it burn oil)


so what's all the deal with aftermarket larger piston sets, nicasil material fixing, and what would you suggest? any answers greatly appreciated

edit: and if there's some shop in europe/us i could send the items to fix+fit pistons with rings that could also be a solution
Its not so easy as europe/us, we use USA stuff too, or any part of the world, aussie or nz aswell. Good stuff -> use.

If you have one cylinder good, you can repair the other one sure.
No problem in doing so.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 2013, 12:00 pm Thread Starter
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Hello again after some time.

So i have some good news and i wanted some comments on this. My (official) local service shop told me to send together with them an email to ducati to apply for a warranty of "good will", because he insisted its a factory issue (oil ring was not put together properly - resulted in wear after time).

So he sent it with pictures, Ducati accepted the application, and he told me that they will cover new cylinder, piston, rings and gaskets for the vertical cylinder!! But that i have to pay for the work done to the service shop. They dont cover work in this kind of warranty (?).

Cool news in the end, tho it will be again somewhat expensive paying an extra 300++ to the shop. Buying a used cylinder-piston and putting it myself could be cheaper, but for sure riskier. Is this how it works? Anyone here has similar experience with ducati?

Anyway i was considering taking it to the shop for assembly no matter what parts i had in the end (used or new) so that is only good news for me. New stuff + run it as new again :P (1000km slow, oil change etc). Besides that i will also perform valve setup now that it is open, so its like making the big service 5000kms earlier. no big deal!!

Thanks to this great company. Seems that "exclusive" companies also respect their clients more.

2007 1098S
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