2020 Pikes Peak motorcycle race canceled - Page 4 - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
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post #31 of 36 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 2019, 2:38 am
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IOM has marshals around the circuit, all marshals have a line of sight to the marshals before them and after them. It's run like a race must be run. The IOM will keep going until no one turns up to race.
PP will not train/can't get enough marshals for the course therefore easier to can moto race.

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post #32 of 36 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 2019, 6:59 am
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The reality is that most racing series where vehicle performance has outstripped the ability of the venue to provide a reasonable level of predictability to the surface have performance limits in place. The world, it seems, disagrees with the old school "stay off my lawn" folks... so arguing the point with them feels like a waste of time. I'm not saying anything there's not already a LOT of literature discussing. When physics far outpaces physiology you can't use "well REAL men" as an excuse to let people die needlessly... it's a silly argument and amounts to "we've always done it that way and I don't want it to change".

Also... the idea that there ever was an "unlimited" tolerance for folks getting killed racing is silly - what there was is a HIGHER tolerance. Since we understand the limits of human physiology a lot better than back then - it's pretty easy to understand when we're surpassing those limits and staying "unrestricted" is converting a skills based sport into a luck based sport where bad luck means you die.

So... complaining about the truck that's going to run you over anyway is pointless (the most likely outcome of absolute thinking is no motorcycles in PP). I'd vote for compromise - I'd prefer NOT to see motorcycles out of the race, so either make the track nominally safe for the given performance level or put suspension or power limits (or both) on the bikes. IMO that at least... IS simple.

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post #33 of 36 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 2019, 7:17 am
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Originally Posted by DaveNZ View Post
The hill as it stands is to dangerous in parts to race bikes. It needs repairs first. Repair the fucking hill, America lags behind the world in not only race riders, but quality race tracks that suit Motorcycles. Fix the fucking hill, make it safer, its an iconic race and needs to keep growing
"Fixing the fucking hill" won't change a thing ... participants will only go even faster yet because the track will permit higher speeds, and you can bet your ass that riders will take full advantage of that. As has been pointed out the racers will always push the limits of the track and the machines. Anyone else that has ever raced pretty much anything knows this. I know it, so do a number of other members here.

Racers die every year on perfectly groomed race courses that have grass runoff areas and air fences ... because they push the limits. That's the very point of racing in the first place, to be the one willing to push the outer limits of the track, the bike, and themselves. Deaths on track have nothing to do with the track itself, it has everything to do with racers not listening to their better judgement and riding over their heads, or making poor judgements ... Marco Simoncelli comes to mind ... he tried to add a third wheel to his motorcycle with his elbow when it wanted to low-side, but didn't take into consideration there were other riders on the track and he got hit by Colin Edward and Rossi when he crossed the racing line. Track's fault? No. Bike's fault? No. Other rider's fault? No. Helmet's fault? No. It came down to Marco making a bad judgement call and paying with his life for it. The two men I saw die at Ascot ... same thing. They got wound up in the spirit of the race and didn't listen to their better judgement.

So this idea of "Fix the fucking track!" won't fix anything. American riders or anyone else for that matter.

There is only one "fix" for this particular situation, and even that is a questionable action; Reduce the size/power of the motorcycles permitted to use on the Pikes Peak course. Reaction times that riders have are the limit here. Slow down the bikes, and the riders have more time to correct for bad judgement calls. Make the max displacement something like a 450cc single (or whatever, you readers get my point here). The motorcycles will be slower, which creates a greater amount of time to respond to an upset in the motorcycle's suspension or a "bad call" by the rider.

But even doing that won't completely mitigate the risk.

Dunne knew full well that the bump or hole (or whatever it was) was there ... he knew full well that the track had problems especially where he ate it. He knew of every risk along the entire length of the course. He knew there were massive drop offs, he knew his motorcycle had limits, he knew he had limits. He elected to ignore one or more of those limits for the sake of a win trophy and the accolades of being the fast guy on the course.

The entire issue comes down to his unwillingness to listen to his judgement. The entire sad story is 100% on him. No one else. No tangible ~thing~ else. No bad track. No under prepared bike. All on him and him alone. It has nothing to do with "America's bad tracks" ... or "America's bad riders" (both are bullshit anyway). It has everything to do with the spirit of the racer ... the will to push the limits to the 50/50 chance (or even higher) of riding beyond those limits to outperform all of the other riders in pursuit of a win.

Look how boring and lousy NASCAR has become. The risk factor has been all but eliminated. Consequently there is far less interest in it from a spectator's point of view ... and even worse, from a participant's point of view. Just like anything and everything that the mainstream do gooders get involved with it becomes homogenized and overly regulated ... which translates into boring.

If racing motorcycles was a safe/easy thing ... everyone would be doing it. But it's not safe nor easy. It takes courage, skill, money, and a will to outrun every other rider on the course. Without those elements the racer is just another "also ran". It's an accepted notion that winning means taking some risks. It's goes with the territory. It has great appeal to the human that wishes to be a champion and leave his mark on the world. One either accepts that idea, or doesn't. It's that simple.

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post #34 of 36 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 2019, 5:51 pm
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Question: Is there anyone on this forum who has raced a motorcycle and NOT exceeded their level of skill ? Every time I was ever on a track I know I did.
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post #35 of 36 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 2019, 9:27 am
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Originally Posted by duc96cr View Post
Question: Is there anyone on this forum who has raced a motorcycle and NOT exceeded their level of skill ? Every time I was ever on a track I know I did.
Agreed. I have to go above my level to improve. Now if I got too far over my level ill crash, but ill learn a helluva lot from it. Edit: Disclaimer: I DO NOT race.

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Last edited by Xyst; Sep 13th, 2019 at 9:28 am. Reason: See post
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post #36 of 36 (permalink) Old Sep 17th, 2019, 10:39 am
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yES .I agree.that is good solution
IMO, Ducati cancelled PP race not because of a death but financial problems.As they changed Paris-Dakar race to Saudi Arabian this year, what you think the reason is, MONEY.Because of s....t arabian money can buy everything.
So, IMO, the really reason is not a death but MONEY..
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