2020 Pikes Peak motorcycle race canceled - Page 3 - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old Sep 10th, 2019, 6:36 am
Senior Member
 
DaveK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: in the Finger Lakes, NY, USA
Posts: 3,277
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by SP3 View Post
And, as of yet, I have not seen a single photo of the spot that was supposed to have lead to him losing control. How does one go about 'fixing the fucking hill, making it safer'? There was a bump. That's all I've read. Anywhere. So, you fix the bump. Then, as I explained earlier, they go faster. Because they can. Someone else crashes and is maimed or killed. Then what? Guardrails? Another injury/death. Air fences? Catch fences? They're racing the clock up a damned mountainside. In the grand scheme of things, what sense is there in doing it at all? You know, because that's not a terribly safe thing to do.
You can watch footage of the cars... I saw a few of them go lock to lock keeping control on that last sweeping corner - it was rough... not just A bump but maybe some washboard or other uneven surface over some distance.

15 Multistrada S Touring/Urban/Enduro, 04 Tiger 955i, 86 MaximX 750 (son), 13 Ural (wife)

"Go soothingly on the grease mud, for there lurks the skid demon"
DaveK is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old Sep 10th, 2019, 11:52 am
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 189
Garage
As much as I hate to see this, it was probably bound to happen once they paved the top portion. The freeze/thaw cycle at those elevations is murder on pavement, take a ride up nearby Mount Evans next year if you want a great example. There are dips in the road large enough to contain a small car, some of which didn't exist the previous year. They would probably have to tear out, regrade, and repave the upper section every year to make it safer for MC racing, which of course means everyone goes faster.

Sign of the times we live in. I imagine the only reason IOM TT still runs is because it brings gobs of money into that community every year, and is an MC only race.
AXSPwr is offline  
post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old Sep 10th, 2019, 3:19 pm
SP3
Prolific Poster Award
 
SP3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Canton, Ohio, USA
Posts: 4,827
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveK View Post
It's not that simple... performance and venue need to be matched. There's a reason why tracks are prepped... and there's a reason why performance restrictions are put in place for many classes of racing. It does matter if he's riding a bike with 4" of suspension or almost 8" if the track is such that 8" provides an increased amount of control. Alternatively... power level can be limited if 4" of suspension is being used on a track where that lack of suspension can lead to loss of control at rates beyond human ability to mitigate.

All other parts of the performance envelope being equal... more suspension results in better ability to manage uneven road surface at any given speed, and more ability of a skilled rider to manage those conditions.

IMO the answer isn't to stop bike racing... it's to manage risk better either through improved road prep or functional (not just a second order 'no clip-on' rule) limitations on performance to insure a reasonable level of risk for a highly skilled rider given the imperfect road surface.

It is that simple. Most everything you went over is under the control of the team building/setting up the machine. And, it doesn't change what I stated about the pilot pushing to the limit of himself and his machinery. 4" or 8" or 36" or suspension travel (to use your example); the pilot will push as far as he dares until he exceeds the limit. If he's lucky, when that happens, he escapes with only his ego suffering a small hit and figures out how to go faster the next time.

I agree that the answer isn't ending the bike runs. Each pilot needs (to continue) to manage their risks themselves. Don't feel 'safe'? Stop.

I do not agree about this so-called road prep since STILL nobody has provided any photo/video of the problem area. The road surface is what it is. In racing, it has always been about setting up the machine to beat the track better than the other guys do.

'91 851 SP3, '66 250 Monza, '99 Monster 900 City, '98 ST2
'99 Monster 750, '66 Riverside 250, '66 Riverside 250
SP3 is online now  
 
post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old Sep 10th, 2019, 3:23 pm
SP3
Prolific Poster Award
 
SP3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Canton, Ohio, USA
Posts: 4,827
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveNZ View Post
Every year the TT track in the Isle of Man is inspected and repaired to a good standard to race on, if its a surface to be raced on, the least that can be expected is at least the surface is safe, how fast you ride is up to the rider.

What is 'safe', then? As I said, you're trying to go up a mountainside road faster than everyone else. What constitutes 'unsafe' constitutes 'safe'?

'91 851 SP3, '66 250 Monza, '99 Monster 900 City, '98 ST2
'99 Monster 750, '66 Riverside 250, '66 Riverside 250
SP3 is online now  
post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old Sep 10th, 2019, 3:38 pm
SP3
Prolific Poster Award
 
SP3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Canton, Ohio, USA
Posts: 4,827
Images: 6
from 2018. go to 2:39.


'91 851 SP3, '66 250 Monza, '99 Monster 900 City, '98 ST2
'99 Monster 750, '66 Riverside 250, '66 Riverside 250
SP3 is online now  
post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old Sep 10th, 2019, 4:34 pm
Sophomore Member
 
t-bills's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Chattanooga, TN, USA
Posts: 2,572
All of the racers know the danger of the event. What is unacceptable is the lack of professionalism of the race itself. IOM TT has line of sight of the whole course by officials. PP is far from it. How long did it take to find Greg Tracy a few years ago? 10 minutes? 15 minutes? To put on an event like this is no small effort. But to half-ass it relying on the reputation of the event is disgusting. The current coverage is equivalent to calling for an ambulance for a crash on a track. Provide adequate support of marshals and medics. Also, don't cover up stories and throw out journalists for reporting facts. The race organizers are their own worst enemy.
DaveNZ and AK-Bandit like this.

Thomas Williams
2018 Multistrada PP, 2012 Hypermotard 1100 Evo SP, 1995 900SS/SP
t-bills is offline  
post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old Sep 10th, 2019, 4:38 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DarR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Ontario, CANADA, ,
Posts: 654
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by AXSPwr View Post
Sign of the times we live in. I imagine the only reason IOM TT still runs is because it brings gobs of money into that community every year, and is an MC only race.
Sign of the times, indeed.
Although the economy of Colorado Springs is dependent on the military which employs one fifth of the work force in the area, its economy is broadly based and consequently not dependent on tourism with events such as Pikes Peak.

To a great extent, the same thing can be said of the Isle of Man. Because of low taxes, the Isle of Man's economy is supported by financial services, online gambling and manufacturing. Surprisingly, tourism does not play a big part of the Isle of Man's economy. However, the TT is a high-viz MC race which keeps it alive. But I wouldn't put it past the paternalistics to shut it down someday because of its lack of run-off. It's the nanny world we're forced to live in (and pay for).
Siddo likes this.

2018 Multistrada 1260 Pikes Peak All purpose fun
2016 Monster 1200 R Rambunctious fun

Last edited by DarR; Sep 11th, 2019 at 8:42 am.
DarR is offline  
post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old Sep 10th, 2019, 6:03 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 189
Garage
One of the reasons I encourage people to become a dues paying member of the AMA. The United States is increasingly hostile to motorcyclists, and I don't see any sign of that trend changing. It won't surprise me a bit if we start to hear talk of banning them in a decade or so, once the last of the boomers hang it up.

It has always seemed to me that some people use safety as a thin veneer over bigotry, and there's certainly enough of that aimed at riders of all types.
Siddo likes this.
AXSPwr is offline  
post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old Sep 10th, 2019, 9:55 pm
Senior Member
 
DaveNZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: urenui taranaki, Taranaki, New Zealand
Posts: 829
Quote:
Originally Posted by SP3 View Post
What is 'safe', then? As I said, you're trying to go up a mountainside road faster than everyone else. What constitutes 'unsafe' constitutes 'safe'?
Well removing a huge bump on the riding line for a start. A good surface to race on for a start. Its the least they could have done.

multistrada 1200.. 2010... Black with full system...2016 KTM 1290 GT. Remus can and link pipe. 2018 KTM 790 fun machine.
DaveNZ is offline  
post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 2019, 12:14 am
Prolific Poster Award
 
John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: The valley, Sac, Ca., USA
Posts: 8,634
Images: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarR View Post
Sign of the times, indeed.
Although the economy of Colorado Springs is dependent on the military which employs one fifth of the work force in the area, its economy is broadly based and consequently not dependent on tourism with events such as Pikes Peak.

To a great extent, the same thing can be said of the Isle of Man. Because of low taxes, the Isle of Man's economy is supported by financial services, online gambling and manufacturing. Surprisingly, tourism does not play a big part of the Isle of Man's economy. However, the TT is a high-viz MC race which keeps it alive. But I wouldn't put it past the snowflakes to shut it down someday because of its lack of run-off. It's the nanny world we're forced to live in (and pay for).
What the hell do you mean by the "snowflakes" anyway?

Present:08 1800 Goldwing,03 999R#189,Past:03 FLHRI Road King, 09 1125CR Buell, 07 1100S MTS, 04 999S, 95 916, 01 900SS, 05 600RR, 05 600RR totalled, 66 650 BSA, 68 Honda DOHC

Ducati-Owners-Group of Sacramento region.
John is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in













Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome