Termignoni Race ECU Tuning - Rexxer, Rapidbike, Tuneboy, UpMap, PC, Booster Plug ??? - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old Feb 28th, 2019, 10:04 pm Thread Starter
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Termignoni Race ECU Tuning - Rexxer, Rapidbike, Tuneboy, UpMap, PC, Booster Plug ???

My 2010 MTS S Touring has the full Termignoni with the Mitsubishi racing ECU, full decat, and O2 removed. It does run good smooth and solid pulling my arms out all the way up to redline once above about 3500 rpm. However it pops on decelerations and has snatchiness in the low range below 3500 rpm. I'm sure fuel tuning could be better. Secondarily, I also am interested in a product that could reset service indicators.

So my question is 2 parts,

1) What is the difference with the Termignoni racing ECU besides the mapping and red light? Is the racing ECU the most optimim tuning option already? Can the racing ECU be remapped and has anyone done remapping or sensor intercept tweaks with their full Termignoni-Mitsubishi racing ECU setups?

2) If so what product is best that works with the Termignoni-Mitsubishi racing ECUs? Rexxer, Rapidbike, Tuneboy, UpMap, Power Commander, Booster Plug? Is Rexxer the only one that allows service resets?

I have very little experience with ECU tuning, but I've been trying to read up on it as much as possible. I do understand the basic issues like closed/open loop and the difference between methods that reprogram the map (Rexxer), and methods that intercept the stock map fueling and modify it through meddling with inputs like lambda, etc. My 2010 MTS is my first bike last year, and I also bought a 2014 KTM 690 Duke. With the Duke I had a lot of success with the Booster Plug that just fools the system to thinking the incoming air is 30 degrees cooler. BP and taller gearing helped a lot on that bike I've been riding through the winter and now getting ready to tune up my MTS for summer.
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old Feb 28th, 2019, 11:12 pm
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I donít know much about the other services youíre talking about to be honest. I am all about Rexxer. They have done an awesome job with my bike, and they have been super responsive in my experience.


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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old Mar 1st, 2019, 3:54 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTS2010Mike View Post
My 2010 MTS S Touring has the full Termignoni with the Mitsubishi racing ECU, full decat, and O2 removed. It does run good smooth and solid pulling my arms out all the way up to redline once above about 3500 rpm. However it pops on decelerations and has snatchiness in the low range below 3500 rpm. I'm sure fuel tuning could be better. Secondarily, I also am interested in a product that could reset service indicators.

So my question is 2 parts,

1) What is the difference with the Termignoni racing ECU besides the mapping and red light? Is the racing ECU the most optimim tuning option already? Can the racing ECU be remapped and has anyone done remapping or sensor intercept tweaks with their full Termignoni-Mitsubishi racing ECU setups?

2) If so what product is best that works with the Termignoni-Mitsubishi racing ECUs? Rexxer, Rapidbike, Tuneboy, UpMap, Power Commander, Booster Plug? Is Rexxer the only one that allows service resets?

I have very little experience with ECU tuning, but I've been trying to read up on it as much as possible. I do understand the basic issues like closed/open loop and the difference between methods that reprogram the map (Rexxer), and methods that intercept the stock map fueling and modify it through meddling with inputs like lambda, etc. My 2010 MTS is my first bike last year, and I also bought a 2014 KTM 690 Duke. With the Duke I had a lot of success with the Booster Plug that just fools the system to thinking the incoming air is 30 degrees cooler. BP and taller gearing helped a lot on that bike I've been riding through the winter and now getting ready to tune up my MTS for summer.
I Think you're a bit confused here.

A Race ECU is basically a Remapped Stock ECU (Mapped for a richer mixture to accommodate exhaust and intake as well as remove some sensors).

1-Why would you want to remap a Race Ecu? Its already a remapped Stock Ecu. Its Mapped for the Termi Exhuast and Intake. But i guess if you wanted to remap it, you could Remap it just some some do on a stock Ecu. Im not sure what you want to map it to tho?

2- Again, The Race ECU is already remapped. So im not sure why youd want to piggy back another system on it? Most use the Stock ECU and another system (tuneboy/rapidbike/etc). I guess mayby if you want to service reset you could.

11' Multistrada 1200-Ducati Performance Race ECU-SC -Project
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old Mar 1st, 2019, 5:20 pm
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I am not familiar with that system exactly but as no one really races a multistrada it is a hop up map as Nokfir2 said. Many of the performance ecu's keep the O2 sensors as well and this often is where the bikes are still lean after the new ecu is added.

Popping on decel is a lean condition as you are telling the ecu that the throttle is closed but you are still at a high rpm and forcing air into the motor due to speed as opposed to setting idling. If a dyno tuner has access to this part of the map they often will richen it so the popping is reduced. Racers don't care. Though backfires will blow exhaust packing out faster than normal.

Under 3500rpms you are on the O2 sensor portion of the map and the bike is likely lean here. If it can be richened then it will get better but that may be a big if. If you have functioning O2 sensors they will likely take away any fuel you give it unless you trick them. If they have been turned off in the ecu then the map should have been modified to be richer in this area. Often these bikes are held to about .2-.3CO in this band and best driveability will be more like 3.0-5.0 CO so you can see it is quite lean. I would start by having someone read your air/fuel and/or CO to see how lean you are and where it changes.

A dyno would be good for this but a shop with a accurate CO meter will be able to read up to 3500 on the bench as well. I just mapped a Rapidbike for a monster 1100 and it was off a ton especially down low. Getting the readings will give you a idea what the next step should be.

Good luck.
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old Mar 1st, 2019, 6:51 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokfir2 View Post
1-Why would you want to remap a Race Ecu? Its already a remapped Stock Ecu. Its Mapped for the Termi Exhuast and Intake. But i guess if you wanted to remap it, you could Remap it just some some do on a stock Ecu. Im not sure what you want to map it to tho?

2- Again, The Race ECU is already remapped. So im not sure why youd want to piggy back another system on it? Most use the Stock ECU and another system (tuneboy/rapidbike/etc). I guess mayby if you want to service reset you could.
As I stated, smoothness in the low rev range and popping on deceleration. The question is can the Termi race ECU be improved upon? Has anybody done it?
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old Mar 1st, 2019, 6:55 pm Thread Starter
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I am not familiar with that system exactly but as no one really races a multistrada it is a hop up map as Nokfir2 said. Many of the performance ecu's keep the O2 sensors as well and this often is where the bikes are still lean after the new ecu is added.

Popping on decel is a lean condition as you are telling the ecu that the throttle is closed but you are still at a high rpm and forcing air into the motor due to speed as opposed to setting idling. If a dyno tuner has access to this part of the map they often will richen it so the popping is reduced. Racers don't care. Though backfires will blow exhaust packing out faster than normal.

Under 3500rpms you are on the O2 sensor portion of the map and the bike is likely lean here. If it can be richened then it will get better but that may be a big if. If you have functioning O2 sensors they will likely take away any fuel you give it unless you trick them. If they have been turned off in the ecu then the map should have been modified to be richer in this area. Often these bikes are held to about .2-.3CO in this band and best driveability will be more like 3.0-5.0 CO so you can see it is quite lean. I would start by having someone read your air/fuel and/or CO to see how lean you are and where it changes.

A dyno would be good for this but a shop with a accurate CO meter will be able to read up to 3500 on the bench as well. I just mapped a Rapidbike for a monster 1100 and it was off a ton especially down low. Getting the readings will give you a idea what the next step should be.

Good luck.
O2 sensor is already removed with the full Termi system. Lean condition is what I suspect is still present with the full Termi system due to the popping and surging at low RPM. This is why I am asking if it can/has been done and if remap or add on is best route to tune it more?
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old Mar 1st, 2019, 10:51 pm
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all the mitsubishi ecu are closed loop, both std and dp variants. flash the ecu to get the lambda sensors disabled and it'll make a lot of difference to low speed running. rexxer, tuneboy can do that.

nothing else you do will have a proper impact in the closed loop area.

the other units - rapidbike, pcv - are add on that will include some sort of lambda sensor manipulation device.

upmap is just a generic term for the dp file that is now supplied as a ducati tool flash to the original ecu as i understand it.

booster plug is just one of those plug in things that manipulates something else, usually air temp, to keep them from going closed loop.

know all wanker

Last edited by belter; Mar 1st, 2019 at 10:58 pm.
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old Mar 2nd, 2019, 3:52 am Thread Starter
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all the mitsubishi ecu are closed loop, both std and dp variants. flash the ecu to get the lambda sensors disabled and it'll make a lot of difference to low speed running. rexxer, tuneboy can do that.

nothing else you do will have a proper impact in the closed loop area.

the other units - rapidbike, pcv - are add on that will include some sort of lambda sensor manipulation device.

upmap is just a generic term for the dp file that is now supplied as a ducati tool flash to the original ecu as i understand it.

booster plug is just one of those plug in things that manipulates something else, usually air temp, to keep them from going closed loop.
The full Termi system does not have lambda sensors as I stated in the original post. The race ECU is thus already flashed to eliminate lambda sensors.

Other units Rapidbike, PCV, if they work by lambda will not work with full Termi system because there is no lambda.

UpMap is a new map loader by Termignoni. That is what I am talking about, not a generic term. https://www.up-map.it/en/t800/

Booster Plug lowers the air temp input by 30 degrees to richen the mixture in the closed loop. It does not prevent closed loop but rather relies upon closed loop.

It is irritating when you are a novice and research an issue then ask others who have more experience and knowledge to receive back false information and answers that indicate the information presented in the OP was not understood. I do appreciate answers back, but my question was does anybody know about this?

Last edited by MTS2010Mike; Mar 2nd, 2019 at 3:58 am.
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old Mar 2nd, 2019, 4:50 am
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my apologies on failing you so badly.

the dp ecu is closed loop, all the mitsubishi are whether oem or dp. if the lambda are already removed then it's been flashed, because it'd log faults if it was a dp ecu with the lambda sensors removed. so it's just a case of the map that has been flashed into it isn't very good.

know all wanker
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old Mar 2nd, 2019, 9:36 am
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Sorry I do not have more info for you. I would reach out to the makers of the up-map , rexxer ,power commander and let them know what you have and your wants and needs. I think you will find most are simply canned maps designed to work on the average bike and set up. If you vary or if your bike is outside the norms expect the canned maps to not give average results. On a race system they could not care about popping on decel or running under 3500 rpm's because a race bike would not be that low or care about popping.

A system that could be tuned on a dyno or a street map that the mapping company spent the time mapping down low sounds to be what you want. I would start by contacting the usual suspects (rexxer, rapidbike etc) as well as local dyno shops to see if you can get closer in the area you have concerns. Ask if there is end user or dyno operator software to adjust from the canned maps if possible so in case the canned maps are not close enough it can be adjusted.

It would be interesting to see how your termi race ecu is mapped as is , Not a full power run as that is probably fine but how lean is it at 0-10% throttle opening between 2000-4000 rpms . This is the area where the factory map may still be lean because of emissions. Likewise 0% and decelerating is likely lean but can any of them adjust for it. You will need to make sure they all realize you have no cat as that will lean things out and there are no O2 sensors to keep you in a range.

The different results between your two bikes may simply be one was closer from the factory or has a better system. It is normal to find differences like this from brand to brand and model to model in a given brand. The up-map system sounds good but if it is just canned maps you are still at the mercy of who made the maps and what bikes they were made on. With the decel popping be sure that you have no exhaust leaks as well.

If this was a older bike your results would be normnal but no one rode them below 3500rpm and the decel popping was considered cool. How far we have come.
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