Stock triple offset differences? - Page 3 - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 42 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 2011, 9:33 pm
Senior Member
 
atomemphis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posts: 301
Garage
Smile IMA set #2, and MOD4 top triple

On the first set of IMA triples with my OEM 3-way adj. M900 forks, I decided to use my CycleCat clipons. When I moved them from the 'fun' M900 in favor of the better SBK oriented setup (detailed below), I put the first IMA MOD1 set on the recently acquired other M900 - the fixer-upper grocery getter.

Instead of clipons, I was going for comfort, so I mounted the IMA bar risers and a 22mm Rizoma handlebar. My wife said "so much red in the garage, be different, use blue!". I took that as a challenge, so I got the bar in blue. (good god it is pretty ridiculous).



Likewise, I was able to run the DP carbon front 98-99 fairing, and even use some billet aluminum brackets instead of the OEM steel ones, got those from ECS - yahtzee!



The 'fun' M900 got the second set of IMA MOD1 triples - bored for the bigger forks, but otherwise the same in every way. Putting on SBK forks means you have to have a hollow front axle (25mm), and corresponding wheel. The 1999 monster lineup and older used a smaller front axle (mine was the 20mm solid front axle). This was replaced with the ultra-lightweight TPO 7068 front axle for the 916-998, a titanium nut, a billet speedometer-replacement spacer, a BST wheel, the ISR rotors, all titanium bolts (axle pinch, brake calipers, rotor bolts), the monoblock calipers (ISR 22-032-OA/OB) use the standard Brembo-style 40mm axial mount, but the 998 forks use the later 65mm caliper mount. I was with AMS at the time, and Jordan showed me some sweet parts from Jeff's racing days - AMS billet adapter plates - they are lighter than the Brembo 40-65 adapter plates I had originally purchased. Lastly, I needed new clipons for the 53mm fork tubes, as well as the damper's fork mount, and to polish it off nicely - the SS hardware in the IMA triples was replaced with titanium.



(I think I forgot to mention earlier, my top triple bolt is a billet one from Motowheels, and the washer that resides beneath it has been replaced with titanium as well. I know, I got issues. You might notice the M900 'grocery-getter' pictured above has a powdercoated black billet "Swirl" top triple bolt from Motowheels as well)




Most recently, the MOD4 triples have come out, and I "had" to have one as soon as I learned about them from Patrick. They are really a great step forward in triple clamp design. If you compare with most of the other offerings out there, you'll notice they are still really just recasting the 1980's design in magnesium, or milling it from aluminum - they are simply rectangles rounded off into a slightly triangular shape, and putting two big holes in it, and one smaller hole. Not much more thought is going into these conventional designs at all.

The MOD4 idea was to not just microwave the leftovers from yesteryear. Adjustable offset, can accommodate a variety of setups, comparatively very lightweight, designed and tested for track enthusiasts to improve feedback, while reducing chattering.

I had to have such an upper triple - so a small adapter was all that was needed to make the MOD4 triple with 30mm offset bush work with my MOD1 lower and slim-stem era bike. The MOD4 upper, however, does not feature bar mounts (good, I use clipons on the 'fun' m900!), nor does it have the cut-out for the ignition's steering lock (again, good! i don't even have a keyed ignition on this bike), or the holes for the gauges/u-bracket's top bolts (great! I had already switched this bike to using billet rings on fork tubes instead of the u-bracket) None of these were 'issues' for me at all - however for many Monster owners, they would require something like OEM gauge mounts, or bar mounts, or want the steering lock, etc: The MOD1 and MOD2 triples (for 94-01 Monsters/SS = MOD1; for 02+ Monsters = MOD2) have all the stock accommodations - you have to give up nothing when using these - there are mounts for the u-bracket on the lower triple, the steering-stop tabs, everything.



The only other thing to comment on is regarding clipons - because the pinch bolt orientation is the same as the early monsters, you want to make sure your clipon choice won't interfere with that front pinch-bolt part of the triple. If you have OEM diameter Monster forks, I used to say "CycleCat!" because they properly had the Monster clipons' risers coming off the side rather than the front of the forks, but now I would have to say SpeedyMoto TallBoys. If you are using SBK style flat clipons, you'll either need to raise the forks in the triples to allow mounting them above the triple (sissy!), or below the top triple with a bit of clearance room for the angle of the bar in the clamp (the manly option!).



I really need to hurry up and order the Motogadget gauge, but keep putting it off while I work with a machine shop on making a billet replica of the 888 SPO eccentric adj. suspension rocker for the Monster. Necessary? Not at all, but I've got my heart set on it.




There's a lot more I can go on and on about. I'm no expert - just really love learning as I go and tinkering, crashing and rebuilding 'em, etc.

1999 M900 'S, 2007 GT1000, some other project scoots.
atomemphis is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 42 (permalink) Old Mar 9th, 2011, 3:22 am
Senior Member
 
mr600ss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: North, QLD, Australia
Posts: 431
Those ima triples are pure porn

I just got a reply back from speedymoto about there triples, as everyone prob knows they dont fit pre 02 monsters which is a bummer since there is so many around. So it looks like ima are they only ones making them for early monsters

I cant wait to get my set and bolt those lovely 1198 front forks up I have

03 620ie Monster - SOLD
97 600ss carby- SOLD
06 999 with 900ss motor project - SOLD
00 900sie monster with ohlins rear shock - Finshed
13 Diavel Maybe
mr600ss is offline  
post #23 of 42 (permalink) Old Mar 9th, 2011, 10:47 am
Senior Member
 
atomemphis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posts: 301
Garage
Thumbs up alternatives / comparisons

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr600ss View Post
Those ima triples are pure porn

I just got a reply back from speedymoto about there triples, as everyone prob knows they dont fit pre 02 monsters which is a bummer since there is so many around. So it looks like ima are they only ones making them for early monsters

I cant wait to get my set and bolt those lovely 1198 front forks up I have

I searched high and low when I was in the market for a triple set for my '99 M900.

I had a CycleCat top triple, but the OEM bottom triple at first. Finding a billet bottom triple was a bit of a task, though not impossible: Motowheels had one but it was priced (at the time) around $6-900. While that would have gotten me 'done', I wanted to keep looking since I didn't want to pay that price for a bottom alone, especially if it would not match my upper in color or machining.

I had found the Style and Performance (S&P) triples, Rairo-Tec, IMA and there were a few others iirc. The S&P triples looked "good" but not great - price was high, the Rairo-Tec triples did not look appealing to me and the price was astronomical (even without VAT), and the IMA was both good looking, robust and very affordable. (When the euro is down, they are practically a steal).

... For what you get with SpeedyMoto sets ... I would not pay their asking price if I had an 02+... Its simply too high for this type of part - part of the price is marquee bling name, the decorative machining, and knowing that many US customers aren't going to look around. I'd quickly do IMA triples and have left over money to grab SBK forks off eBay and have a substantially upgraded scooter, and still likely have some beer money remaining.

It helps that I regularly search the DMC and other Italian forums - my Italian is poor, but passable, so I have learned a lot that way. I've had CNC Racing and Ducabike parts long before they were being sold by the US Vendors (btw, they are nice products despite their silly names).

So, there are other options, but I didn't find them appealing when I was looking. I regularly revisit those manufacturers to see if there products have been redesigned, or repriced, or if they have new products/technology coming out. So far, nothin' doin'.

IMA does regularly reexamine their product lineup and incorporate improvements as time goes on. In my opinion, this is a great thing for a company to do - just because my bike is older doesn't mean I should have to settle on older era technology. And their stuff is out on the track regularly, being put through the paces before it is sold to you.

As far as dealing with 'em - I have no trouble with communications so if anyone has questions - feel free to PM me as Barry has, or post them here. Delivery to my door in Dallas Texas has usually run on the shorter end of 5-7 business days from the day I send paypal.

1999 M900 'S, 2007 GT1000, some other project scoots.
atomemphis is offline  
 
post #24 of 42 (permalink) Old Mar 9th, 2011, 10:59 am
Senior Member
 
atomemphis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posts: 301
Garage
I think it may have been in a PM to Barry, but if not and this is redundant - you can pass skip over:


On my SBK project (putting 2v motor in 748/916 era frame), I have gotten a set of the DucShop triples and obtained a necessary spacer for using the DucShop billet 30mm triples for the 848 on the 748-era frame. Pic of them on installation day (also with NCR clipons and 1098/1198 forks, to eventually get some Ohlins or Traxxion cartridges)



(too head it off at the pass - NO, the final project will not be orange... its a used tank for mocking up the project)

Interestingly, DucShop has changed their design up recently - but the only change has been to the offset - from 30mm to 28mm (the magic number is often cited as 30, but elsewhere found as low as 27, and other times 29mm). The shape of upper and lower remains the same - essentially billet versions of the 1198 triples, with a clever steering stop design to fit both fix geometry bikes (848) and adj headstock (1098/1198).

For comparison, this is the MOD4 - the upper like on my bike:




Since the MOD4 design has come out by IMA and I've gotten to fingerbang one of the uppers, I plan on swapping the DucShop pieces out in favor of a MOD4 set, and getting a few sets of the offset bushings (say 27, 29, 30 or 31) so I can play with what feels the best to me after riding around for awhile. The lightweight design is an added bonus beyond the geometry changes, and I'm excited to try out the design on the track (hopefully a few times at Barber this year), where I can really thrash it about and see how the feel is changed and chattering is reduced.

1999 M900 'S, 2007 GT1000, some other project scoots.

Last edited by atomemphis; Mar 9th, 2011 at 11:02 am. Reason: incorrect tags around images, oops.
atomemphis is offline  
post #25 of 42 (permalink) Old Mar 9th, 2011, 11:07 am
Senior Member
 
atomemphis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posts: 301
Garage
Here's a shot of a 1098R triple from Gotham Cycles for comparison, I think the DucShop triples (and the Kyle USA and Nichols) essentially mimic this, and lighten it here or there, the DucShop triple appears smaller / slimmer than the OEM 1098R, and you can see that part of that is based on the relocation of the fork pinch bolts to the inside, rather than on the front of the triple. Still a single bolt design top triple.


1999 M900 'S, 2007 GT1000, some other project scoots.
atomemphis is offline  
post #26 of 42 (permalink) Old Mar 9th, 2011, 12:51 pm
Senior Member
 
atomemphis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posts: 301
Garage
IMA Options - Elaborated:

Here's a run-down of the options / understanding the options for the two Monster triple clamp sets:

Models

MOD1: for Monsters, this means 'narrow-stem' models and would include all US-spec Monsters before and including 2001. So 1993/94 through 2001. Can also be made to work on the other 'narrow-stem' Ducatis, such as the belt-era 750SS and 900SS (including CR models, and any other 'trims'). These bikes came equipped with tapered roller bearings from the factory - and the MOD1 triples use the same OEM bearings, or the aftermarket bearings from SpeedyMoto (make sure you get the ones for 94-01 Monsters, as they sell a replacement/upgrade set of tapered bearings for the 02+ Monsters, and all other current model lines, mentioned again below). The MOD1 SPECIAL is discussed below in bar-mounts section. Note that the following two pictures show the steering stem separate - it is certainly its own distinct piece, however it comes installed for you.



MOD2: for Monsters, this means all Monsters after 2001: 2002 through the 695. I do not believe this includes the 696/796/1100 (yet). The MOD2 is also appropriate for the ST lineup. These bikes came with roller bearings as standard from the factory. The MOD2 triples use the same bearings - put a new set in (outer race in head stock, inner race on lower triple) and you are good to go. You can get the bearing from your local duc dealer or a tapered bearing alternative from SpeedyMoto.



Diameter of forks, upper and lower
As far as options, you can have the normal Monster triples bored for the OEM forks (the "direct" swap), the Showa SBK forks (53/53), or the Ohlins SBK forks (53/56). Note that aftermarket Ohlins vary in sizing, so you may want to verify they are 53/56, or 53/53, or the 52/52 japanese manufacturer bounce-sticks. There's no additional charge for the OEM monster forks diameter holes.

Bar Riser Holes
"Choosing between MOD1 or MOD1 SPECIAL"
In the next part, I may refer to holes being "wider" - I am meaning the front-to-back, or fore-to-aft hole spacing, not the left-to-right width. I could not think of an intelligible word besides width or distance. You'll notice the MOD1 is spaced more narrowly compared with MOD1 SPECIAL; MOD1 SPECIAL and MOD2 spacing are the same - the 2002+ bar riser spacing. If you are ordering a MOD2 for your 2002+ Monster or ST, just go on and ignore all of this next section.

You are essentially choosing 32mm or 38mm if my memory serves correctly, and relying on said memory, here's the explanation:

You can have the bar riser holes machined as they were from the OEM - the narrow 32mm spacing for the 22mm handlebars. No add'l charge for 'regular'. You can alternatively have the holes for the bar risers drilled for the later, wider position (38mm) - which is appropriate for the tapered style handlebars (either aftermarket 'fat bars', like Renthals or Pro-Taper, or OEM bars from M1100, Hypermotard, S4RS, etc). The wider bar-mount positioning can still be used with the 22mm 'normal' handlebar - the bar itself is dependent on the risers. If you don't care about regular handlebars, do normal and move on, or (smarter move) request wider mount for "just in case" you want the comfort in the future, you'll be able to choose the stronger tapered style bars (and get take off OEM bars off eBay, or from the Parts Unlimited catalog, or from Rizoma, etc).

You can get the narrow-mount risers for the 22mm (7/8") bar (oem bar on early monsters and small displacement monsters through 696) (or order up an aftermarket 22mm bar such as the specific 22mm Rizoma and many others.). That being said, there are few 'taller' risers available for the old school narrow bar mounts, so its about as high as they are going to get - if you switch to SBK forks, this may pose an interference problem. Here again, I suggest the wider position bar riser mounts - because there are many options available to raise the bars further up, especially useful if trying to navigate around the fork caps additional height of SBK forks (or if preload is not cranked in much). Likewise, this should open you up to additional options for riser manufacturers in the future should you want something different - including the SpeedyMoto's with the exposed bolts, as well as the hong kong ebay clones.

Bar Risers
You pick from essentially 3 choices, determined by above decisions as to MOD1 / MOD1 Special / MOD2 triple clamps:
1) MOD1 Risers (22mm - 7/8" bars)
2) MOD1 Special and MOD2 Risers (22mm - 7/8" bars)
3) MOD1 Special and MOD2 Risers (28.8mm - the fat tapered bars)

Here is the MOD1 style - notice bolt location is 'narrow'


Here is MOD1 SPECIAL and MOD2 style:

You can add them to the purchase at that time if you are going to mount it up with a bar - puts bar about an inch from top triple - obviously the anodizing matches perfectly, and the risers will include the necessary mounting bolts to secure the bar and clamps to the top triple. You can omit them if you know you aren't going to use them, and always order them later if you change your mind (I prefer to order them now 'just in case', and put them away on the parts shelf in my garage)

Offset: MOD1/MOD2
Offset is fixed on these models at 30mm. This is a change from the 94-01 Monsters which used the 25mm offset. This is no change for the 02+ Monsters. Essentially the old Monsters are updated to the same offset as the newer Monsters. This was chosen after much request by customers who preferred the steering characteristics of the 30mm over the 25mm on the Monster. (Personal opinion interjection: It does feel very nice and dare I say more intuitive around turns at speed [thumbsup])

Anodizing
MOD1 and MOD2 are available in Black, Clear, and Gold. (I have black on both of my bikes with IMA MOD1 triples - it is deep glossy black, and has not faded in the sun after much riding. Bike is kept in a garage though, so if you park yours out in the desert all day it might begin to fade some as all anodizing will, so perhaps choose silver). MOD4 triple clamps for Ducati SBKs run in black and the Ti-color anodized (darker gray than clear anodize). Here's the options from their website to see MOD1/2 colors:




Accessories
If you are changing fork diameters to SBK forks, your existing steering damper fork-clamp will be too large (e.g. 54mm instead of 53mm). You need a correct size damper clamp for your forks, be it 53mm or 56mm. You can get the heinous looking Pro-Tec piece, or spend a fortune on a spare Ohlins bracket, or you can make your life simple and order one with your triple clamps from IMA, like so:


Payment
IMA takes Paypal - non-EU customers will not pay the VAT, but you will obviously pay shipping (which is very reasonable, especially when compared to carbon fiber parts vendors in Europe). Again, shipping is CRAZY prompt - and it always impresses me. If you "order straight off the menu" your item pricing is very easy to figure out, and the shipping cost: it is what it is.

Contacting IMA with Questions OR to place an order
For placing an order, send an email to imasrl(at)imasrl.com
For technical questions, send an email to p.costa(at)imasrl.com (That's m' buddy Patrick, he is the man!)

..and If you have a question or are confused, feel free to shoot me a PM or email [jchristianvincent(at)gmail.com - put something about Ducs or IMA in the subject, make me laugh if possible) and I will be more than happy to help you figure out what would be correct for your setup, as well as what the approx. item price would be. I speak English and some Italian (not conversationally fluent, but reading/writing it is easily accomplished)

1999 M900 'S, 2007 GT1000, some other project scoots.

Last edited by atomemphis; Mar 9th, 2011 at 1:10 pm.
atomemphis is offline  
post #27 of 42 (permalink) Old Mar 9th, 2011, 4:42 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Porsche Barry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Shoreline, WA, USA
Posts: 416
If anyone needs, I have a set of sbk showas from a 999 in great shape for $250 shipped. Upgrade your monster with the adjustable sbk suspension
These are 53/53 sized top and bottom.

Customize everything.
Panigale, '05 999 (x2), ST4, M750, Darryl Havens' 900SS, '05 MTS 1000S, Aprilia RXV 550, GSXR 1000, '78 Shovel head, '75 bobber.'
Then the cars... I need a bigger sig!
Porsche Barry is offline  
post #28 of 42 (permalink) Old Jun 21st, 2011, 9:19 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 513
Will they sell just an upper triple for a 996 so I can mount handlebars on my streetfighter project? I would want it to fit the stock stem, offset and have the stock steering damper mount.
This thread has been a big help for me. Thanks guys!

David
92cobra is offline  
post #29 of 42 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 2011, 7:44 am
Senior Member
 
bmwstrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bossier City, Louisiana, USA
Posts: 836
Great info atomemphis, you know that this show and tell will only cost some of us money!!

My wife purchased a 696 last month and I was about to bore the top triple for 848 showa forks that I purchased. Already made the 5mm shims for wheel, and bushing to use 696 axle, plus I have brass .5mm shim stock. She test rides after my last mod to the OEM forks, says, "Perfect, do not touch anything"! Bummer.

Now I have this 848 setup, just sitting here waiting, LOL.

I love my MTS12, but about to take delivery on S10, so will most likely sell the MTS, and then pickup a used M1100 to mod, so I will keep the forks for a while.
bmwstrider is offline  
post #30 of 42 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 2011, 9:14 am
Senior Member
 
atomemphis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posts: 301
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 92cobra View Post
Will they sell just an upper triple for a 996 so I can mount handlebars on my streetfighter project? I would want it to fit the stock stem, offset and have the stock steering damper mount.
This thread has been a big help for me. Thanks guys!

David
They may be able to work a special MOD4 type top triple with Hypermotard style riser holes. I'm not certain if they currently have available a 36mm offset version (25-31mm I believe). Are you dead set on keeping 36mm? Most people change to 30, 28, 27, etc...

1999 M900 'S, 2007 GT1000, some other project scoots.
atomemphis is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
27mm offset triple report 748/916/996/998 SouthsideDuc Superbikes 5 Feb 19th, 2016 3:21 am
offset triple clamps humblepie Superbikes 6 Jan 21st, 2011 4:56 pm
999 30mm offset triple clamps and stock rear ducdom Superbikes 0 Dec 29th, 2009 9:59 am
Triple Clamp Offset Data Desmo_Demon Ducati Motorcycle Chat 0 Oct 21st, 2009 8:59 am
Triple Offset 1098rr Superbikes 5 Feb 15th, 2009 12:31 pm

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome