Times when the dzus mod for fairing removal would have been good - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
 
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post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old May 4th, 2019, 10:45 pm Thread Starter
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Times when the dzus mod for fairing removal would have been good

Jumped on the bike fully kitted to take the ST4S for a ride before the season is over in this part of the world, pressed the button and the starter motor just kept going and going.
The engine fired up fine but the starter kept on going even when I switched everything off.

And as we all know there's no quick way to get at those battery terminals unless you did the dzus thing or have become a plastic vandal.

I've never been too bothered with the ridiculous number of wellnuts and screws holding on the plastic and just kept them lubed for easy undoing.I hadn't really thought of what if I needed to get access in a hurry...like now.

Anyway, by the time I got out of my helmet jacket and gloves and did the routine of removing dash panels mirrors screen etc just to disconnect the battery!, the starter had finally died.Hopefully its just the battery and I haven't cooked some electricals.

Its the starter solenoid again.Its fused itself together...didn't know when to stop, adhd?.

It happened once before several years ago with the original solenoid. I replaced it with a Hitachi MS5A-181 that someone on here had recommended.
It worked perfectly fine until today.No warning of imminent failure.

Is this to be an expected lifecycle of a solenoid for our bikes? 5 or 6 years?
Seems a bit brief to me having owned cars and bikes much older that were still on their originals

And 2ndly, what causes these failures?...am I not riding fast enough?..tyres too black?
I upgraded the starter motor wiring and weather proofed it the last time this happened and the connections seem to have remained clean and good.
It has always cranked well and the battery is in good nick and kept on a tender.

And finally, are there solenoids other than the OEM that have been found to be a better solution than the guaranteed to be expensive version from the Ducati shop?

I seem to remember Ducatimike upgraded to a Ford truck version but don't have the link.

Any advice appreciated.Not many rides left before the ice comes, the roads here get covered in grit and the bike gets put away until September.

Colin.
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post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old May 4th, 2019, 11:57 pm
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Still not an engineer, but I gotta think your starter is drawing too much. Or at least too much for the solenoid - which is just an electronic switch - thus fusing the hot terminals in the switch together. You probably need a starter rebuild after this episode anyway so I would also take a look at the entire circuit - wire size, dirt, corrosion etc and get the system back to zero zero. Then I would run a volt/amp meter on it to see what the draw is while starting and compare to what the specs of the solenoid are.

Last year I rewired my Hailwood's starter circuit with thousand strand, floppy, silicone encased primary wire and ran the ground from the batt using the same stuff to the engine. I was losing almost 2V at the starter before and now the loss is minimal and the bike starts a lot better. Not the same problem as yours but I can't help but think there is a relationship here. An elec motor will continue to draw and draw and draw without limit against mechanical resistance until it blows up, seizes or ruins (ie fries) the components in line. A shoddy circuit will exacerbate this.

Failure is not an option 1995 Duc 916,1994 Bim DB2,1986 Duc MHR Mille, 1974 Duc 750 Sport, 1965 Duc Monza
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post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old May 5th, 2019, 5:20 am Thread Starter
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Thanks Casor.

Your thoughts make sense.

Several years back around the time of the last solenoid failure I pulled the starter motor because of a leaking oil seal from the LH case letting oil into the starter and slowly coating the commutator and brushes with burnt oil and crud.

I cleaned it out skimmed the commutator and replaced brushes and the dodgy oil seal but it could well be time to look in there again to see if all is well.

So what I hear you saying is that when the starter electrical circuit is in optimum condition with minimum draw the arcing/fusing shouldn't occur.
I'll look into the thousand strand wire and the starter motor.
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post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old May 5th, 2019, 6:39 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColinF View Post
Jrecommended.

Is this to be an expected lifecycle of a solenoid for our bikes? 5 or 6 years?
Don't think that's the norm?

My 916 is 21 years old with 50,000 miles on it and still on the original solenoid and AFAIK the Monster is still on the original 20 yr old part too.

916, M900 & Guzzi LeMans II
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post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old May 5th, 2019, 12:50 pm
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I think I remember getting my stuff from here:

https://motolectric.com/makes/ducati.html

Failure is not an option 1995 Duc 916,1994 Bim DB2,1986 Duc MHR Mille, 1974 Duc 750 Sport, 1965 Duc Monza
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post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old May 5th, 2019, 2:39 pm Thread Starter
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Thanks for the cable supplier link.They look good.I'll order some today.
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