Talk me out of buying a '98 ST2 - Page 12 - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
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post #111 of 120 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 2019, 11:49 am Thread Starter
SP3
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Engine and tach die for an instant (except for the most recent occasion). Lights/dash lights stay on.

I'd already gone through most of the electrical connection when I got it. Battery, starter/solenoid, fuses, relays. I originally overlooked the relays and fuses under the seat until the other day.

The thing I keep thinking about is the loss of signal/power to the tach. That's where the CPS theory came from. Bad sensor = no tach signal and no engine.

'91 851 SP3, '66 250 Monza, '99 Monster 900 City, '98 ST2
'99 Monster 750 (slowly disappearing bit by bit), '67 Wards Riverside 250 (fate tbd).
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post #112 of 120 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 2019, 1:08 am
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SP3, I am following your posts with interest and entertainment..... well written.
I have had an issue in the past that drove me crazy with similar symptoms to your bike.
I will continue to view your posts and journey. I have an opinion on your issue and predict you will fix it by the following.

Install a cable from your ecu to ground and not rely on the wiring harness to achieve a good ground.

I could be wrong however try it and let me know how you go....

Good luck.
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post #113 of 120 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 2019, 4:56 am
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a 16m shouldn't need an external ground, but it mightn't hurt at this point.

tacho dropping is indicative of rotation sensor or ecu power. you need to find out which is faulty when it won't restart. removing relays and jumping power in and out is the best way to rule them out, i certainly see lots that click, but don't transmit power. had an mv today that the pump relay seemed to do nothing with the load (fuel pump) connected, but showed power at the connector with the pump disconnected. i removed and refitted the relay, and it was fine. bit of an unsatisfying solution to me, but i rode it and it didn't stop.

i like to use a test light to see where the power stops. if there is none then i'd be suss of the rotation sensor. nothing happens when cranking until it lets the ecu know the engine is turning. if there's no pump at key on then it's a relay, ecu power or pump wiring issue. pump running at key on means lots of stuff is ok. in that instance i'd first suspect rotation sensor.

know all wanker
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post #114 of 120 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 2019, 7:03 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieST3 View Post
SP3, I am following your posts with interest and entertainment..... well written.
I have had an issue in the past that drove me crazy with similar symptoms to your bike.
I will continue to view your posts and journey. I have an opinion on your issue and predict you will fix it by the following.

Install a cable from your ecu to ground and not rely on the wiring harness to achieve a good ground.

I could be wrong however try it and let me know how you go....

Good luck.
Haven't spent a lot time on it (or any 'fun/toy') projects lately. Hopefully, this week will see a little free time for it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by belter View Post
a 16m shouldn't need an external ground, but it mightn't hurt at this point.

tacho dropping is indicative of rotation sensor or ecu power. you need to find out which is faulty when it won't restart. removing relays and jumping power in and out is the best way to rule them out, i certainly see lots that click, but don't transmit power. had an mv today that the pump relay seemed to do nothing with the load (fuel pump) connected, but showed power at the connector with the pump disconnected. i removed and refitted the relay, and it was fine. bit of an unsatisfying solution to me, but i rode it and it didn't stop.

i like to use a test light to see where the power stops. if there is none then i'd be suss of the rotation sensor. nothing happens when cranking until it lets the ecu know the engine is turning. if there's no pump at key on then it's a relay, ecu power or pump wiring issue. pump running at key on means lots of stuff is ok. in that instance i'd first suspect rotation sensor.
The CPS was replaced and, if anything, the issue has gotten worse. I'm guessing a relay. The difficulty lies in that until the very last episode, I was going fast enough that power would return and I'd keep on going. The last time was the first where I was 'stranded' (a whopping 100 yards from the house).

Since my last post, I dove further into the wiring and removed the tank and airbox. Since I was that far, I gutted the tank and got new fuel line (internal and external), filter, clamps, and have it 90% assembled to put the tank back together. Checking continuity of everything I can touch. Still searching for the correct wiring diagram. The one I found that allegedly for the '98, has more than a few things that don't match up to real life.

'91 851 SP3, '66 250 Monza, '99 Monster 900 City, '98 ST2
'99 Monster 750 (slowly disappearing bit by bit), '67 Wards Riverside 250 (fate tbd).
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post #115 of 120 (permalink) Old May 1st, 2019, 7:15 pm Thread Starter
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OK. Injectors back from being serviced (because, if I'm this deep into this thing, I may as well. short money). Everything cleaned, new fuel filter, all hoses inside and out, all new clamps, nicely routed, Before I reassemble it all and pressure/leak test, has anyone found a potting compound for the pump/sender wiring bulkhead that A) works and B) isn't ridiculously priced? Another 'may as well, while I'm here' item. The original material is essentially intact but, I've read enough instances of corroded/broken wires in the bulkhead fitting that I'd rather make sure now so I can leave this thing together 'forever'. Going back together tomorrow evening or Friday afternoon at the latest.

'91 851 SP3, '66 250 Monza, '99 Monster 900 City, '98 ST2
'99 Monster 750 (slowly disappearing bit by bit), '67 Wards Riverside 250 (fate tbd).
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post #116 of 120 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2019, 7:21 pm Thread Starter
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Finally (finally) got it back to a point where I could start going for test rides. Ride 1 this afternoon was only around town. Somewhere near 3-mile radius (just in case....). 20 miles total. Nothing bad to report, thankfully. All kinds of speeds/loads/revs.

My hat's off to you guys that have taken these bikes and made them naked and somehow hidden all the shite hanging about. Ugly, ugly machine when naked. But, it really does sound good without the airbox. Whacking the throttle full open from 6k is bliss.

I hope to get another ride in tomorrow after work to further test things and gain enough trust to put it back together proper and ride it daily. I'd like to ride to work as often as possible this year.

'91 851 SP3, '66 250 Monza, '99 Monster 900 City, '98 ST2
'99 Monster 750 (slowly disappearing bit by bit), '67 Wards Riverside 250 (fate tbd).
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post #117 of 120 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2019, 7:24 pm Thread Starter
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and, the only thing I found that was 'funky' in all this was the splice for the Power Commander's power/throttle position signal was kind of nasty. Re-spliced (and lengthened and covered in heat shrink tubing) that so I could re-route everything else and move the PC box to a better location.

'91 851 SP3, '66 250 Monza, '99 Monster 900 City, '98 ST2
'99 Monster 750 (slowly disappearing bit by bit), '67 Wards Riverside 250 (fate tbd).
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post #118 of 120 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2019, 7:19 pm Thread Starter
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well fack........

'91 851 SP3, '66 250 Monza, '99 Monster 900 City, '98 ST2
'99 Monster 750 (slowly disappearing bit by bit), '67 Wards Riverside 250 (fate tbd).
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post #119 of 120 (permalink) Old May 19th, 2019, 2:39 pm Thread Starter
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So, as my last (very short) post might have suggested, the ride yesterday didn't end well. Another 30 miles in and I'm very close to home. But, I decide to make one more lap through downtown. I'm coming to a red light, pull the clutch, engine dies. I coast to the curb and try to restart. Shit, I was really hoping this was behind me.

This time, everything is working, including the tach. But, no start. I only put in about 3 gallons of fuel total but, I couldn't have gone through it all. I check anyway and I can see plenty of fuel. I pushed it toward home about 10 blocks before the friend I texted met me and trailered it the remaining 10.
We stopped to pick up some beer, unloaded it, and bs'd over a few. Later, I took a shower and had a few more beers before I went to bed.

This morning I get hoping that it still won't start so that I can go through a number of things. Luckily, it did not. So, fuel pump. I can hear it when I turn the key and hit the switch. Next, spark - plenty. 25k volts and nice and blue. Next was checking injectors with Power Commander still in line. The airbox is still off so I can see clearly down the intakes. Crank it over (plug wires grounded) - the tiniest little completely un-atomized trickle you'd never want to see. AH F'ING HA! Damned PC unit's given up. This will be easy. Go back to the original injection connections and re-test. Same f'ing result. Hardly any fuel coming out. Hmmm. Pull off the external hose from the pump to the injectors and fuel just runs out. You friggin' dumbass!

Drained the tank and pulled the pump assembly out. In my over-the-top rebuilding of the tank internals, I forgot one extremely important thing. I didn't tether the hose on the pump outlet with safety wire as I had planned from the outset. Said hose, with its nice new clamp, was dangling free. And, to add insult the new (allegedly Viton) O-ring had already swollen to a size no human could finagle back into place. So, dig out the drill, a bit, .020" safety wire, and pliers and made things happen. Reassembled is all (with the original Ducati O-ring) and went for another ride (staying closer to home). 15 more miles without problems.

I'm done riding/wrenching for the day. My tennis elbow is killing me and so are my feet. Both from pushing the machine yesterday. Another ride tomorrow if the weather cooperates after work.

On a brighter note, I have found that, after the winter with shoe-stretchers in them, the TCX Sport Tour EVO Air I bought form another forum member, fit great. Good flexibility for shifting and braking. Pleased as punch with that part of the day. They're just not the thing for pushing a motorcycle around town.
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'91 851 SP3, '66 250 Monza, '99 Monster 900 City, '98 ST2
'99 Monster 750 (slowly disappearing bit by bit), '67 Wards Riverside 250 (fate tbd).
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post #120 of 120 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 6:57 pm Thread Starter
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another two rides over the last two days. something like another 35 miles without issue. last night, I even got brave enough to reinstall the airbox (after a couple hours of routing wiring/plumbing and then disliking something and redoing it all again. and again. and again). Still not convinced I have the problem licked. The only thing I found (and made a definite change to) was the shite splice/solder joint mentioned previously. I was going to ride to work in the AM but, it's supposed to rain then and I prefer not to press my luck. Long weekend coming and the weather's supposed to be fairly good so a bunch more test rides before the fairing goes back on.
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'91 851 SP3, '66 250 Monza, '99 Monster 900 City, '98 ST2
'99 Monster 750 (slowly disappearing bit by bit), '67 Wards Riverside 250 (fate tbd).
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