Worn Sprocket washer and output shaft - Page 4 - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #31 of 41 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 2017, 8:35 am
Lifetime Premium
 
grimah1w's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Woodlawn, TN, USA
Posts: 690
Garage
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Q View Post
Since my link reference probably was confusing, here is the article. By the way, bchatt, your solution looks like Desmo_Demon's first solution, that didn't hold up for long. Keep an eye on it.

See the copy of magazine article written (page 19) by him detailing the whole idea of using a sprocket to work around a buggered up countershaft spline.
http://www.usdesmo.com/leanings/Lean...1_1_Spring.pdf

Having paid attention this thread and having recently encountered the dreaded output shaft wear, I am adding an update to the thread and how I followed Desmo_Demon's posted solution in "Leanings" as well as why I believe this occurred. While doing a thorough clean up (including chain and sprockets) of the 2002 ST4s after a great 1500+ mi trip, I noted increased wear in the output shaft splines where the sprocket retention plate fits.

Photo of the issue:



Donor front sprocket, had it machined to ext dia and thickness as I specified. Machine shop should grind off the teeth first before risking damage to their bits...





Fitted spacer behind front sprocket:



New retention plate and bolts installed:




WHY did this damage to the output shaft occur in the first place???

I believe Output Shaft wear of the splines in the plate's channel is due to misaligned chain! I know, I have read numerous accounts in this and other Ducati forums warning of the likely inaccuracy of the swing arm alignment marks. But until I recognized the spline wear issue, I relied on the marks for chain/axle alignment. I had been overconfident in aligning the rear wheel of my ST4s using my Desmo Times plates and the swing arm stamped marks. Put my Motion Pro chain alignment tool on and uh oh it was definitely out of alignment!!! There is about 3mm (1/8") difference... maybe about a half a degree (0.5 degrees). Here are the photos of alignment using the Motion Pro tool and bringing the chain into accurate alignment, notice the difference between left side swing arm marks and the right side...

Left Side Swing Arm


Aligned!


Right Side Swing Arm



There really is no need to learn this lesson first hand...get an alignment tool and make sure your chain is aligned. The Desmo Leanings spacer fix looks like it will keep any further damage to the output shaft mitigated...will update if that isn't the case.
.
.
.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2017-12-02 11.54.54_sm.jpg
Views:	388
Size:	177.6 KB
ID:	877833   Click image for larger version

Name:	2017-12-02 11.55.38_sm.jpg
Views:	382
Size:	78.4 KB
ID:	877841   Click image for larger version

Name:	2017-12-02 12.06.53_sm.jpg
Views:	308
Size:	81.4 KB
ID:	877849   Click image for larger version

Name:	2017-12-02 13.05.37_sm.jpg
Views:	412
Size:	215.0 KB
ID:	877857   Click image for larger version

Name:	2017-12-02 13.25.25_sm.jpg
Views:	304
Size:	83.5 KB
ID:	877865  

Click image for larger version

Name:	2017-12-02 13.25.36_sm.jpg
Views:	391
Size:	205.7 KB
ID:	877873   Click image for larger version

Name:	2017-12-02 13.25.45_sm.jpg
Views:	363
Size:	80.1 KB
ID:	877881   Click image for larger version

Name:	2017-12-02 11.55.49_sm.jpg
Views:	391
Size:	81.4 KB
ID:	877905  
Stick, Desmo_Demon, Dan Q and 2 others like this.


Vinnie R.
Tennessee

2004 998s FE
2002 ST4s

Last edited by grimah1w; Dec 9th, 2017 at 11:55 am. Reason: forgot photo of the finished spacer
grimah1w is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 41 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 2017, 3:57 pm
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lake Zurich, IL, USA
Posts: 60
Perfect summary! Thanks for the pics.

I'd add another possible cause. I think retention plate wear adds to the problem. So, I recommend to check the plate for wear and replace. They're cheap.

2001 748s Mono, 2005 ST4S
Dan Q is offline  
post #33 of 41 (permalink) Old Dec 16th, 2017, 4:48 am
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Nimbin, NSW, Australia
Posts: 108
You guys got me worried so I had a look at my ST3 but found it has a great big nut with a locking tab to hold the front sprocket so there must be a thread on the spline? Anyway it doesn't look to slide at all on the spline. Is it a better system than on the ST4?
dewcatty is offline  
 
post #34 of 41 (permalink) Old Dec 16th, 2017, 8:25 am
Moderator in moderation
 
mlukason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Hopkinton, MA, USA
Posts: 4,604
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewcatty View Post
You guys got me worried so I had a look at my ST3 but found it has a great big nut with a locking tab to hold the front sprocket so there must be a thread on the spline? Anyway it doesn't look to slide at all on the spline. Is it a better system than on the ST4?
I've never had a problem with mine. So I'll say "yes" our system is a better design. (but I'll say it quietly) I sure you can mess up our system too...like strip out the shaft or something.
tonered likes this.

Mike
2006 ST3 - 2004 KLR 650 (the Truck)
NEDOC
mlukason is online now  
post #35 of 41 (permalink) Old Dec 16th, 2017, 8:50 am
Just visiting your planet.
 
Yorik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Woodstock, NY, USA
Posts: 8,264
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewcatty View Post
You guys got me worried so I had a look at my ST3 but found it has a great big nut with a locking tab to hold the front sprocket so there must be a thread on the spline? Anyway it doesn't look to slide at all on the spline. Is it a better system than on the ST4?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlukason View Post
I've never had a problem with mine. So I'll say "yes" our system is a better design. (but I'll say it quietly) I sure you can mess up our system too...like strip out the shaft or something.
The ST3 system is better. Period. The Japanese got it right 30 years ago.

A little OT, but some ST3's came with the wrong width spacer from the factory (mine included) and it misaligned the chain enough so that it wore into the side of the front sprocket. I've got an ugly picture around here to prove it. I'm pretty sure it was Brad that wrote about it on his website.

2005 ST3
2003 749s
Yorik is offline  
post #36 of 41 (permalink) Old Dec 20th, 2017, 1:28 am
Senior Member
 
Desmo_Demon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Easley, South Carolina, USA
Posts: 3,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Q View Post
Since my link reference probably was confusing, here is the article. By the way, bchatt, your solution looks like Desmo_Demon's first solution, that didn't hold up for long. Keep an eye on it.

See the copy of magazine article written (page 19) by him detailing the whole idea of using a sprocket to work around a buggered up countershaft spline.
http://www.usdesmo.com/leanings/Lean...1_1_Spring.pdf
Quote:
Originally Posted by grimah1w View Post
Having paid attention this thread and having recently encountered the dreaded output shaft wear, I am adding an update to the thread and how I followed Desmo_Demon's posted solution in "Leanings"
Geeze...I forgot I even wrote that article. I am glad to see that some of my goofy ideas and trails and tribulations have helped others. I hope the new arrangement treats you well for many, many miles with no negative effects.

Can't get a new sig pic to load. Oh goodie.
Desmo_Demon is offline  
post #37 of 41 (permalink) Old Dec 20th, 2017, 5:21 am
Lifetime Premium
 
grimah1w's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Woodlawn, TN, USA
Posts: 690
Garage
Images: 3
Thanks Desmo_Demon, hoping the same! Good to see you posting again. Thanks again for sharing your ideas! The sprocket spacer seems sound! Did you ever notice any other side effects?
Thumbs up!
.


Vinnie R.
Tennessee

2004 998s FE
2002 ST4s
grimah1w is offline  
post #38 of 41 (permalink) Old Dec 20th, 2017, 1:06 pm
Senior Member
 
Desmo_Demon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Easley, South Carolina, USA
Posts: 3,442
Unfortunately, I had a stator issue and then another stator issue with the new stator and then everything else in life happening, and I only got about 5000 miles on the set-up before I quit riding. One of these days I will have to pull the bikes out of being moth-balled, get them running, again, and start riding.



Quote:
Originally Posted by grimah1w View Post
Thanks Desmo_Demon, hoping the same! Good to see you posting again. Thanks again for sharing your ideas! The sprocket spacer seems sound! Did you ever notice any other side effects?
Thumbs up!
.

Can't get a new sig pic to load. Oh goodie.
Desmo_Demon is offline  
post #39 of 41 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2019, 2:30 pm
WED
Senior Member
 
WED's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Metchosin British Columbia, , Canada
Posts: 108
Did the doner sprocket spacer work out for you in the long run?
I am about to do this to mine; same issue, and leaving on a long tour SouthWest. Should I be worried
WED is offline  
post #40 of 41 (permalink) Old May 11th, 2019, 4:04 pm
Lifetime Premium
 
grimah1w's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Woodlawn, TN, USA
Posts: 690
Garage
Images: 3
@WED -- I received your PM but your settings are such that they deny you receiving PMs so I could not reply. so posting...

So far the spacer seems to have done its job well. Here is a photo of it in place, taken the other day...this is about 1-1/2 years after I first installed it, about 5,000 miles ago. Would have loved to taken it to ECMX but I got slammed with work and could not break away this past week. Sounds like it was a good time.


Spacer Today



Spacer at install, Dec 2017



Vinnie R.
Tennessee

2004 998s FE
2002 ST4s
grimah1w is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome