Worn Sprocket washer and output shaft - Page 2 - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 7th, 2017, 8:12 pm Thread Starter
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Well, I have a new washer ordered and, the mail working like it should, I should have it tomorrow. I picked up a large fender washer at the hardware store and drilled holes to match the lock washer and will bolt that to the end of the shaft and screw the lock plate to the sprocket with the bolts passing through that fender washer. That will hold the lock washer against the outer side of the shaft slot (the side that is not worn). I tested it with worm out washer tonight and it holds great. Zero slop. There will be a slight clearance issue with the chain guard, but that is easily overcome-able.

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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 8th, 2017, 12:29 am
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That is a good start, but without spacers in there, the retainer bolts cannot be properly torqued and could work their way out even with thread lock. Also, you did get longer retainer bolts. Right?

I'm just throwing that out there because you are getting off easy with a small mod. It would be crappy to have it lead to crankcase, swing arm, or clutch damage down the road if the retainer bolts fall out.

There is already the possibility of the bolt in the shaft working loose (it ain't gonna get tighter!). At least that is a visual check. Along that line, it would be good to cut a check hole in the original cover or pick up the inexpensive sprocket cover that desmotimes sells.

Edit: if the shaft bolt goes missing, it isn't going to cause damage. It will only allow the sprocket to float around again. The primary goal is to secure the sprocket. Secondly is to prevent it from riding and rubbing on the inner and outer shaft splines.

Finally, do you have a Case Saver in there?

Have a good one.

tony b
2001 ST4 - Thumper
2013 Ural GearUp (sold)

Last edited by tonered; Jun 8th, 2017 at 8:43 am.
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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 8th, 2017, 4:03 am
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Yeah, I've been exactly here, just recently. It's imperative you have slop in your plate centre hole, so that the sprocket can float around a bit. There's no way you will be able to keep it from coming undone otherwise. I made a plate like you have done, spaced it out (so the sprocket sits adjacent the groove in the countershaft, where it normally would) with a couple of washers and bolted and locktited with the 2 bolts through the sprocket. I then took an M8 bolt and washer, fashioned a boss just slightly thicker than the plate I made, and drilled the centre hole in the plate slightly larger than the boss. I find it a bit hard to describe, but what you need to end up with is 1. the plate firmly attached to the sprocket, 2. the M8 bolt firmly locked in to the countershaft (output shaft) and 3. still have the sprocket " floating" on the spline so that all forces, snatching etc is independent of your locking plate - this way there is no strain on it at all - it's just controlling sprocket "end float" if you will.
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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 8th, 2017, 8:41 am
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Sorry, but thinking about the no spacer setup also worries me about loading the retainer plate in direct tension. That doesn't feel like a good option, even more so for a partially worn output shaft. It just wasn't designed for that type of loading, and I believe that you will find the plate and shaft wearing in a short time.

Again, sorry to be a wet blank.

Have a good one.

tony b
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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 8th, 2017, 3:38 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchatt View Post
Yeah, I've been exactly here, just recently. It's imperative you have slop in your plate centre hole, so that the sprocket can float around a bit. There's no way you will be able to keep it from coming undone otherwise. I made a plate like you have done, spaced it out (so the sprocket sits adjacent the groove in the countershaft, where it normally would) with a couple of washers and bolted and locktited with the 2 bolts through the sprocket. I then took an M8 bolt and washer, fashioned a boss just slightly thicker than the plate I made, and drilled the centre hole in the plate slightly larger than the boss. I find it a bit hard to describe, but what you need to end up with is 1. the plate firmly attached to the sprocket, 2. the M8 bolt firmly locked in to the countershaft (output shaft) and 3. still have the sprocket " floating" on the spline so that all forces, snatching etc is independent of your locking plate - this way there is no strain on it at all - it's just controlling sprocket "end float" if you will.

Any way you could post some pics? I'm trying to come up with a solution myself and I'm sure it would help the OP and anyone else that is considering this option.

What I was hoping for was a way to reduce rotational slop. Am I correct in thinking that their's no way to control rotational slop without restricting the float. To me, controlling the rotational slop contributes greatly to reducing wear on the locking plate and the splines....Right? Still don't understand why their needs to be a certain amount of float when most other countershaft sprockets on other bikes don't seem to have any.

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post #16 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 8th, 2017, 6:20 pm
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How about something as simple as this? Flange bolt threaded into the shaft with a washer fitting tightly between the bolts holding on the lock washer. Greatly reduces the float while still allowing movement, also provides a fail safe if the lock washer should fail after becoming worn. Didn't have to space the counter shaft cover much to clear.
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post #17 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 8th, 2017, 7:55 pm
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Originally Posted by Bryanc123 View Post
Any way you could post some pics? I'm trying to come up with a solution myself and I'm sure it would help the OP and anyone else that is considering this option.

What I was hoping for was a way to reduce rotational slop. Am I correct in thinking that their's no way to control rotational slop without restricting the float. To me, controlling the rotational slop contributes greatly to reducing wear on the locking plate and the splines....Right? Still don't understand why their needs to be a certain amount of float when most other countershaft sprockets on other bikes don't seem to have any.
OK,I'll try and get a pic tonight when I get home from work.
Even the new sprocket I fitted is not a tight fit on the splines, my splines may be worn but the slop doesn't seem much worse than some of the other bikes I've had. The OEM keeper plate is not there to control this "rotational slop". It is purely keeping the sprocket in the correct lateral position on the spline. I don't believe it's necessary or viable to try and lock the sprocket rigidly onto the output shaft, given the system Ducati has presented us with here. They obviously didn't think the sprocket had to be locked to the output shaft, so I'm happy to run with that. My plate has been on there for about 1500km so far with no sign of any problem. Like the OP, I had to do something because the inner edge of the keeper plate groove had become chamfered. The wear areas on my plate, being the end of the shaft and a washer under the head of the M8 bolt, are greater in area than the "mis aligned keeper plate tags"so I'm hoping I've got it sussed - time will tell .....
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post #18 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 8th, 2017, 8:58 pm
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Common problem. I had the same issue on my bike. Here is a link to another thread on the issue,. There are others too. I had an old sprocket machined down to act as a spacer behind the chain sprocket.

https://www.ducati.ms/forums/40-sport...ml#post6079162

A new retainer won't last long on that shaft.

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post #19 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2017, 12:51 am
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Here are a couple of pics. Please bear in mind I fashioned this solution by hand , in a hurry because I wanted to go for a ride (as always!). You can see the new black OEM keeper plate against the sprocket, then 3 washers which space my additional plate to just flush with the end of the countershaft. The most important bit is not visible - the central boss which allows tightening the M8 bolt, while allowing the sprocket to move around - rotational slop as Bryanc123 puts it, is not impeded or transferred to the additional keeper plate. It seems to be working fine. I needed to put a washer under each of the 2 plastic cover boltholes to prevent the M8 bolt head wearing on the inside of the cover.
And, no Tonered, I didn't put longer retainer bolts in, but I looked long and hard at the originals and I sure would have put some longer ones in if I'd had some, but, well, you know, the twisty roads were calling me
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post #20 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2017, 9:02 am
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I like it.

I do not understand the hidden boss aspect, but it looks great.

If it is holding that life is good. If it was my bike, it might grab some longer bolts the next time I'm at the store, just to give myself a warm, fuzzy feeling.

Have a good one.

tony b
2001 ST4 - Thumper
2013 Ural GearUp (sold)
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