Oil brand and service life?? - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
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post #1 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 2014, 2:22 pm Thread Starter
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Oil brand and service life??

This is probably going to get highly complicated but all I really and looking for is which is a good (not necessarily great) brand oil to use that will last for a riding season of around 5000 miles give or take. Bike is only used for street riding and going to be used for commuting to work (yay boston traffic). Currently past the break in period and basically doing the coming out of storage oil change. The only thing I run in anything I own is synthetic and that is due to seeing a quite a few sludge pans from people using non syn in a vehicle that requires syn on top of it being the incorrect grade for the vehicle, which try telling people that because they saved $20 for going someplace else they now have to have a complete rebuild or a long block at about $7600 (engine only no labor). Leaning towards mobil 1 4t, liqui moly, or elf.

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post #2 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 2014, 3:24 pm
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Spectro Platinum Ultra 4 15W50 (PAO based full synthetic)
Silkolene Pro 4 15W50 (ester based full synthetic)

Both developed to last the length of the factory oil service interval on new bikes.

There are also several synthetic 20W50's which I don't mention because my personal belief is 20W is just a little too heavy on the cold side for these water cooled engines, especially if you ride through the winter.

When I use the term synthetic I am not referring to the ones that use hydroisomerized crude oil (group III) but rather, either PolyAlphaOlefin (PAO) based Group IV's or ester based group V's.

This thread may get locked. We have a number of oil threads lately.


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post #3 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 2014, 6:08 pm
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Seeing as you are quite clear in your mind as to what type of basestock you would like to run.
The next challenge is to sort the wheat from the charff, and ascertain which are the genuine synthetics.
I don't think you can go too far wrong with the Mobil 1 Motorcycle oil. It has a well proven track record.
I hear the Liqui-moly is good as well.
Perhaps you could use the Liqui-moly and report back with some concrete findings on the performance. There's a general lack of solid information on that oil.
You could do a Virgin Oil Analysis, and follow up at your service intervals with some Used Oil Analysis to verify it's suitability/fitness for purpose in your application.

There are other oils, which can be more expensive with very little(if any) real world performance advantage.
With some supposedly being the very best in class with questionable real world performance. They may even have pretty colours and special scents added to the oil which is intended to put the oil in a different class from all the others.

As Bonaventure mentions there's some good 50 grade oils which are available that are at the thinner end of the spectrum for a 50 grade.
Then there are some others which are at the thicker end of the spectrum for a 50 grade.

Simply try to use the most suitable grade for your application.
So in that regard it pays to refer to your owners manual.

From personal experience, I always try to run an oil that's as thick as I can reasonably use for my climate. In this case it's a 20w-50 full synthetic. And I ride all year round.

What is your preference in terms of grade that's suitable for your climate?
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post #4 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2014, 4:58 am
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You might try looking at european oil specs. The rules on product description here are considerably tighter than the USA. Which means the marketing hype has to have some basis in truth. I also wonder if that's the reason Royal Purple, Redline, Spectro etc. etc. Aren't easily available here.

I like the idea of building up a series of requirements and then deciding which oil fits the profile best. I suspect that a list of the usual suspects will quickly form and then it will be down to arguing on details.
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post #5 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2014, 5:18 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Black View Post
You might try looking at european oil specs. The rules on product description here are considerably tighter than the USA. Which means the marketing hype has to have some basis in truth. I also wonder if that's the reason Royal Purple, Redline, Spectro etc. etc. Aren't easily available here.

I like the idea of building up a series of requirements and then deciding which oil fits the profile best. I suspect that a list of the usual suspects will quickly form and then it will be down to arguing on details.
Quite correct.

Redline is another oil that's not often mentioned.
On paper it looks absolutely fantastic. The Noack and HTHS numbers are superior by a good margin.
It's strange that they market their 50 grade oil as being a 20w-50. The reality is that it's specs show it's much the same as all of the other 15w-50 grade oils found in the Group V Ester category.
I've looked into Redline here, but it's seriously cost prohibitive for me.
I think the distributors/retailers are seriously gouging on price

Cost and availability are another two important detail considerations when making your choice.
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post #6 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 2014, 8:53 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonaventure View Post
Spectro Platinum Ultra 4 15W50 (PAO based full synthetic)
Silkolene Pro 4 15W50 (ester based full synthetic)

Both developed to last the length of the factory oil service interval on new bikes.

There are also several synthetic 20W50's which I don't mention because my personal belief is 20W is just a little too heavy on the cold side for these water cooled engines, especially if you ride through the winter.

When I use the term synthetic I am not referring to the ones that use hydroisomerized crude oil (group III) but rather, either PolyAlphaOlefin (PAO) based Group IV's or ester based group V's.

This thread may get locked. We have a number of oil threads lately.
I know when I had the 600mi service done they put 10w-40 in it my main concern is with engine heat as my commute does have some traffic involved with it on a daily basis so id rather not be stuck on something where the engine heat is going to be cranked up so to speak because the oil cant help to pull some of the heat out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirt View Post
Seeing as you are quite clear in your mind as to what type of basestock you would like to run.
The next challenge is to sort the wheat from the charff, and ascertain which are the genuine synthetics.
I don't think you can go too far wrong with the Mobil 1 Motorcycle oil. It has a well proven track record.
I hear the Liqui-moly is good as well.
Perhaps you could use the Liqui-moly and report back with some concrete findings on the performance. There's a general lack of solid information on that oil.
You could do a Virgin Oil Analysis, and follow up at your service intervals with some Used Oil Analysis to verify it's suitability/fitness for purpose in your application.

There are other oils, which can be more expensive with very little(if any) real world performance advantage.
With some supposedly being the very best in class with questionable real world performance. They may even have pretty colours and special scents added to the oil which is intended to put the oil in a different class from all the others.

As Bonaventure mentions there's some good 50 grade oils which are available that are at the thinner end of the spectrum for a 50 grade.
Then there are some others which are at the thicker end of the spectrum for a 50 grade.

Simply try to use the most suitable grade for your application.
So in that regard it pays to refer to your owners manual.

From personal experience, I always try to run an oil that's as thick as I can reasonably use for my climate. In this case it's a 20w-50 full synthetic. And I ride all year round.

What is your preference in terms of grade that's suitable for your climate?
I pretty much ride is 40-100f degree weather but I also want an oil that will be able to help pull some heat out with it as stated above. I think im going to try the liqui moly as im pretty sure i can get that around here easy enough.

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post #7 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 2014, 12:02 pm
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In that case you want thinner oil as this is more effective at transmiting heat. Something with a high film strength would be a good idea.
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post #8 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 2014, 3:38 pm
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If you run 10W40 the full service interval it may be a 10W30 towards the last 1/3 of the interval length. The specific Liqui Moly product is Liqui Moly Racing Synth 4T 10W50. It uses PAO as the base oil but they must use mineral oil for the additive carrier because the MSDS says 10 - 30% mineral oil. Most synthetics that use PAO as the base oil tend to use ester as the additive carrier, and those would be my preference. Spectro, Amsoil, Motorex, maybe Repsol if you want PAO. For ester based, Silkolene and Motul lead the way.


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post #9 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 2014, 6:05 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grcmonkey View Post
I know when I had the 600mi service done they put 10w-40 in it my main concern is with engine heat as my commute does have some traffic involved with it on a daily basis so id rather not be stuck on something where the engine heat is going to be cranked up so to speak because the oil cant help to pull some of the heat out.



I pretty much ride is 40-100f degree weather but I also want an oil that will be able to help pull some heat out with it as stated above. I think im going to try the liqui moly as im pretty sure i can get that around here easy enough.
If that's the case, then I would run a 15w-50 grade oil in your application.
Maybe even a 10w-50 grade.
There are heaps to choose from which fit your criteria.
Refer to your owners manual regarding the appropriate grade.
I would also recommend you have a look at the Amsoil Motorcycle Oil White Paper to gain some insight into what your dealing with in regard to making an informed decision.

If your bike is liquid cooled, higher heat from slow traffic commutes shouldn't be a problem.
If your bike is air cooled then that changes the dynamic a bit.

Keep in mind that oil only gets thinner with higher heat.
And as Bonaventure says, and oil that starts out as a 40 grade may well end up a 30 grade by the time your bike is due for a scheduled oil change due to a number of legitimate reasons.
Likewise a 50 grade may end up as the equivalent of a 45 grade or even a 40 grade.
You won't know this for certain unless you do a Used Oil Analysis.

Don't get too excited about an oils capacity to physically pull some heat out unless the bike is air cooled.
A true synthetic oil will handle heat better anyway.
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post #10 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 2014, 6:35 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Black View Post
In that case you want thinner oil as this is more effective at transmiting heat. Something with a high film strength would be a good idea.
With my limited knowledge it seems the 10w40 would run cooler at first; but inevitably the temps will rise, and the thicker oil would provide better protection.

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