Oil brand and service life?? - Page 3 - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
 
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Old Apr 16th, 2014, 11:45 am
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Originally Posted by Bonaventure View Post
Dirt, your experience with the Amsoil MCV 20W50 has been much better than my experience with the Amsoil MCT 10W40. In my bike, the Amsoil 10W40 dropped to the middle of the 30 weight range by the end of the oil interval, which happened to be in the winter so technically even a 30 weight was still within the temp chart guidelines in the manual. There was some debate that maybe the lower viscosity was from fuel not from shear, but the lab noted TR for "trace" with regard to fuel so I have to think from that it was [gear] shear and not fuel. Also, my aluminum reading was a little high on the Amsoil 10W40, although that could be attributable to being a new engine less than a year old at the time. I do beleive Amsoil to be a very shear resistant oil, if not one of the most resistant to shear that one can find, up there with Spectro, Silkolene, and Motul. And given that the oil change was preceeded by a two hour highway ride with very limited city traffic operation right before draining, it further indicates fuel dilution would not be the likely cause of the viscosity drop that was found by the analysis.

So it is that experience with one the most shear stable oils on the market going from a 40 to a 30 that has brought me to the conclusion, along with a recommendation by the Ducati Master Technician at my dealership, to adhere to 15W50 from now on so that when not if it shears, it will still be a 40 weight (most likely) by the end of the service interval. I should note that the oil run referred to above was not the full Ducati 7500 (miles) it was about 4500.

You're certainly on top of it.

Gear boxes are tough on the oil.
So is the engine with it being an L-Twin

Regarding the fuel dilution.
I really don't understand what trace is
My lab reports the actual amount they detect.
But anything above say 2.5% may well be deemed to be too much(depending on the lab and application) they will report that it indicates a problem of some description.
Other labs will deem 3% to be a reasonable threshold.
Having said that 0.5 % extra over and above long term averages, can potentially make a world of difference in the oil's viscosity.
Sometimes the negative effects on the oil are from the aromatics in the fuel.
The solvent effects of the fuel alone can significantly attack the oil molecules and oxidise the oil leading to its demise.
Then when you take it for a long run to burn off/evaporate the fuel out of the oil, it doesn't show up as being problematic fuel dilution levels in the UOA.
But the damage has already been done long before, by the fuel that's previously loaded up in the oil thousands of miles ago.

In all honesty I'm not certain of any of the other oil brands you have mentioned there.
I revert to the Amsoil Motorcycle Oil White Paper.
Only a couple of oils rate very well overall, and there can be a disconnect between the performance of one brands 10w-40 grade and their 20w-50 grade.
That's why like yourself, I validate the oils performance with the UOA's at the time of the oil change to keep a close eye on things.
Over time, It provides a baseline for what's normal for that machine.
Then anything that's a significant spike can maybe point the way to trouble, or verify a problem you know that is current or has been rectified earlier.

With the MCV, it starts out as a 20w-50 and effectively ends up a 15w-50 in all my applications. And the wear metals are consistently low.
With loads of ZDDP left in reserve, and also TBN for laughs.
So I'm very happy with that
I think I'm getting good value

It's not that I don't look around for alternatives though.
Everything is up for constant review.
But I still keep coming back to the MCV, as it ticks all the boxes in every respect.
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Old Apr 16th, 2014, 6:42 pm
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Originally Posted by Dirt View Post
You're certainly on top of it.

Gear boxes are tough on the oil.
So is the engine with it being an L-Twin

Regarding the fuel dilution.
I really don't understand what trace is
My lab reports the actual amount they detect.
But anything above say 2.5% may well be deemed to be too much(depending on the lab and application) they will report that it indicates a problem of some description.
Other labs will deem 3% to be a reasonable threshold.
Having said that 0.5 % extra over and above long term averages, can potentially make a world of difference in the oil's viscosity.
Sometimes the negative effects on the oil are from the aromatics in the fuel.
The solvent effects of the fuel alone can significantly attack the oil molecules and oxidise the oil leading to its demise.
Then when you take it for a long run to burn off/evaporate the fuel out of the oil, it doesn't show up as being problematic fuel dilution levels in the UOA.
But the damage has already been done long before, by the fuel that's previously loaded up in the oil thousands of miles ago.

In all honesty I'm not certain of any of the other oil brands you have mentioned there.
I revert to the Amsoil Motorcycle Oil White Paper.
Only a couple of oils rate very well overall, and there can be a disconnect between the performance of one brands 10w-40 grade and their 20w-50 grade.
That's why like yourself, I validate the oils performance with the UOA's at the time of the oil change to keep a close eye on things.
Over time, It provides a baseline for what's normal for that machine.
Then anything that's a significant spike can maybe point the way to trouble, or verify a problem you know that is current or has been rectified earlier.

With the MCV, it starts out as a 20w-50 and effectively ends up a 15w-50 in all my applications. And the wear metals are consistently low.
With loads of ZDDP left in reserve, and also TBN for laughs.
So I'm very happy with that
I think I'm getting good value

It's not that I don't look around for alternatives though.
Everything is up for constant review.
But I still keep coming back to the MCV, as it ticks all the boxes in every respect.
Sorry, but all of this reminds me of " I lie to myself to be happy"!

12 SFS
The older I get; the faster I was!
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Old Apr 30th, 2014, 9:52 am
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As you can see, lots of opinions and data. If you are a numbers geek, go to Bob-The Oil Guy's site and have fun.

I have used lots of brands (Agip, Silkolene, Golden Sprectro, Amsoil) but have landed on Mobile 1. It performs well in tests and is highly rated. But realistically, any good moto specific oil, synthetic or otherwise, should do fine as long as it is changed regularly.

Heck, I ran Rotella synthetic diesel oil in my track bike (blasphemy, I know). It was cheap and a buddy of mine had it tested after multiple track days and its protecting quailties remained in tact after 10 track days.
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Old Nov 10th, 2014, 5:21 pm
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Use amsoil 20/50 full synthetic motorcycle oil..... Great stuff and will last well past your time limit. I used it in my race bike after an engine rebuild (proper break in) and could barely detect any visible wear over the season.

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Old Nov 14th, 2014, 9:14 am
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Originally Posted by smack28752 View Post
As you can see, lots of opinions and data. If you are a numbers geek, go to Bob-The Oil Guy's site and have fun.

I have used lots of brands (Agip, Silkolene, Golden Sprectro, Amsoil) but have landed on Mobile 1. It performs well in tests and is highly rated. But realistically, any good moto specific oil, synthetic or otherwise, should do fine as long as it is changed regularly.

Heck, I ran Rotella synthetic diesel oil in my track bike (blasphemy, I know). It was cheap and a buddy of mine had it tested after multiple track days and its protecting quailties remained in tact after 10 track days.
Smack,
I may be the one accused of blasphemy but I am convinced that the frequency of the oil change beats out the particulars of what's used (within the parameters of what the application requires, of course).

I can add to your list of oils tried: Motul, Repsol, Honda. Like you, I've used Rotella as well. Others are free to disagree but I change my oil every 2,000 miles, including a new filter, religiously. Overkill? Maybe. But I don't give the oil a chance to break down. When I was tracking/racing my RC51, I changed the oil after every weekend event and the filter every other oil change.

IMO, frequent oil changes is still the cheapest form of insurance.

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Old Nov 14th, 2014, 2:24 pm
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I'm not necessarily convinced that frequent oil changes are actually the cheapest form of insurance.
But it certainly goes close, especially when compared to infrequent oil changes.
There's no doubt that it gives peace of mind though

Proper selection of grade and type of oil for the application as part of the maintenance program outweighs the high frequency oil change.

I suppose it all comes down to what one can afford.
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Old Nov 14th, 2014, 4:57 pm
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Proper selection of grade and type of oil for the application as part of the maintenance program outweighs the high frequency oil change.

I suppose it all comes down to what one can afford.
The correct oil for the specific application is a must, just like you said. Yet I still believe that frequency is crutial. I hear stories all the time of users proudly stating that they ran this or that oil for 7K, 8K, or more miles between changes. In my non-scientific mind even the "best" oil will be long past usefulness at these intervals, especially in a motorcycle.

I recall talking to other Harley owners when I rode a Lower Rider. These folks didn't bat an eye dropping $20K plus on an Harley (like most of us did on a Ducati) and then balk at using any oil that would cost more than a few dollars a quart. I felt then, as I do now, it's a classic case of "jumping over the dollar to save the penny." I told one guy it was like building a half-million dollar home and spending $500.00 on the landscaping.

I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.--Socrates
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Old Nov 18th, 2014, 6:54 am
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Shell Advance Ultra 4 10W40.


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Old Nov 19th, 2014, 12:54 pm
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Shell Advance Ultra 4 10W40.
Have you tried it yet? I'm really curious as to your thoughts.

I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.--Socrates
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Old Nov 19th, 2014, 8:07 pm
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I posted that in response to a guy asking what the factory fill is. But that post seems to be gone.

The Shell Advance stuff is nearly impossible to get in North America and I consider other choices to be superior anyhow.


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