Oil brand and service life?? - Page 2 - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 2014, 8:22 pm
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I think the 40 weight vs 50 for ability to remove heat evens out either way. While the lighter weight may transfer heat marginally better, the marginally longer dwell time in the oil cooler (and thus more transfer of heat) of the 50 may cancel out the advantage of the 40.

One thing's for certain though, oil talk is fun!


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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 2014, 10:25 pm
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Originally Posted by Spaghetti Bender View Post
With my limited knowledge it seems the 10w40 would run cooler at first; but inevitably the temps will rise, and the thicker oil would provide better protection.
Sounds fair enough to me

I'll take potentially more protection when hot, over maybe less cooling during a warm up phase any day.
Who knows. The thicker oil may even help speed up the warm up period, and that's got to be an advantage

With the true synthetics, cold cranking/pumpability is well known and proven to be superior to mineral oils or their Franken offspring anyway.

Of course there's the issue of film strength.
I'm uncertain that if you could put a dozen experts in a room to debate the matter, a conclusive outcome will emerge.
Especially seeing as once the hydrodynamic state of lubrication has been superseded and transitioned into the boundary state of lubrication, where film strength is no longer relevant. The anti wear additives literally take over anyway as a last line of defence against wear.

On my bikes, I have noted that they're not consuming much in the way of anti wear additives anyway.
So the heat and pressure that's required to activate them is not present.
To my way of thinking the oil I'm using must be doing it's job very well before things get that critical in the hydrodynamic state
So ultimately, there's a lot of reserve additive left in the oil which I'm currently using.
I'm probably throwing away about 85% of what I actually start out with in the fresh oil after 6,000 Kms.

All I know, is that a thicker grade of oil in a particular nominated basestock, will inevitably have more in reserve in terms of hydrodynamic protection when temps rise.
It helps when the manufacturer recommends the thicker grade of oil in the first place. Seeing as they designed the thing anyway.
And they empower me, to make my own mind up by using the table in the owners manual to verify it's suitability for my ambient temps.

The theories about a thinner grade oil in a particular basestock, being able to prevent thermal runaway better than a thicker grade of the same basestock is not conclusive. At all.
There's absolutely no proof yet as far as I know.
I will wait and see.
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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 2014, 12:53 pm
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Thicker oils sap more HP from a motor. This can be measured on a dynomometer. As with everything in life oils are a balancing act. you balance the ability of the oil to lubricate against it's energy absobtion. Personally I question the wisdom of rushing to the thickest oil available as I try not to waste horse power I've paid good money for.

Thinner oils provide better hydrodynamic lubrication, less energy loss and better heat transfer. Modern long-life oils have those qualities plus a high film strength and suffer less degradation through shearing. Unfortunately they do not have the types of addative that we are used to as these damage catalists. They do have other addatives to do the same job that do not harm catalysts. I'm trying to find out if there is any good reason NOT to use them in my 748,
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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 2014, 3:08 pm
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I come at it from another angle.

IMO, if I pay for a 50 grade I want it to remain a 50 grade for the full duration of the service interval. Engine and transmission rebuilds aren't cheap, and I don't need any more power because It's nearly impossible for me to use all the power I've got.
A thicker oil helps to keep the engine running quiet. A quiet engine is a happy engine
Besides it would be impossible to measure any benefit through lap times, of having 2-3 extra hp from using a thinner oil on most tracks.

Then there's the approach that Bonaventure has, which factors in some oil shearing whilst in service.
He fully accepts the possibility of starting out with a 50 grade only to have it shear down to a 40 grade at the end of the service interval.
It's sort of a bet each way.
He won't entertain the notion of having a 30 grade oil in his machine at all.
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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 2014, 3:14 pm
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AMSOIL oil and filters are reasonably-priced and one of the top-performing oils that I've used. After beating up the oil for a while, I have sent it out for testing and it's still performing well enough to keep on running safely and no trace metals and other things that would indicate premature engine wear.
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post #16 of 54 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 2014, 4:38 pm
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Originally Posted by GrnEyedMonster View Post
AMSOIL oil and filters are reasonably-priced and one of the top-performing oils that I've used. After beating up the oil for a while, I have sent it out for testing and it's still performing well enough to keep on running safely and no trace metals and other things that would indicate premature engine wear.
I'm hearing you
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post #17 of 54 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 2014, 4:54 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrnEyedMonster View Post
AMSOIL oil and filters are reasonably-priced and one of the top-performing oils that I've used. After beating up the oil for a while, I have sent it out for testing and it's still performing well enough to keep on running safely and no trace metals and other things that would indicate premature engine wear.
Thank you !

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post #18 of 54 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 2014, 5:47 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrnEyedMonster View Post
AMSOIL oil and filters are reasonably-priced and one of the top-performing oils that I've used. After beating up the oil for a while, I have sent it out for testing and it's still performing well enough to keep on running safely and no trace metals and other things that would indicate premature engine wear.
While I use Amsoil in my Jeep; I don't use it in my SF. My tech who happens to be the oldest Ducati Master tech recommends against it. He stated that it didn't agree w/ the metallurgy. He recommends Redline and Mobil 1. I don't know specifics but if I am not wrong; boron is lower in the Amsoil. I don't know if that has anything to do w/ it or not ; but that's what I have found in my research. Please understand I am just sharing my findings; but do your due diligence and base your decision on your findings.

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post #19 of 54 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 2014, 8:06 pm
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Yes the Boron levels in the Amsoil MCV are <5 PPM.
Which makes it virtually non-existent.
I suspect that it's in minute traces in the additive pack, because I find it unlikely that they'd go to the trouble of adding so little on purpose when blending.

I don't know what's so special about DUCATI metallurgy?
Unless the critical components are made of unobtanium.

But from the low wear metal numbers I'm getting with this oil, I couldn't care less what it's got or hasn't got in it.
For all I care, they could put minute traces of Panther urine in it
The only exception, is noting how little ZDDP is being consumed so I'm actually wasting it by changing it.
More importantly, the outstanding viscosity retention for the duration of the 6,000 Km OCI is very reassuring.

As I've stated here on this forum in the past I can run this oil out to 10,000 Kms in the Harley without a worry in the world
Being that the DUCATI's are easier on the oil than the Harley, I would be absolutely confident in running this oil out to the full 12.000 Kms if necessary.
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post #20 of 54 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 2014, 9:31 am
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Dirt, your experience with the Amsoil MCV 20W50 has been much better than my experience with the Amsoil MCT 10W40. In my bike, the Amsoil 10W40 dropped to the middle of the 30 weight range by the end of the oil interval, which happened to be in the winter so technically even a 30 weight was still within the temp chart guidelines in the manual. There was some debate that maybe the lower viscosity was from fuel not from shear, but the lab noted TR for "trace" with regard to fuel so I have to think from that it was [gear] shear and not fuel. Also, my aluminum reading was a little high on the Amsoil 10W40, although that could be attributable to being a new engine less than a year old at the time. I do beleive Amsoil to be a very shear resistant oil, if not one of the most resistant to shear that one can find, up there with Spectro, Silkolene, and Motul. And given that the oil change was preceeded by a two hour highway ride with very limited city traffic operation right before draining, it further indicates fuel dilution would not be the likely cause of the viscosity drop that was found by the analysis.

So it is that experience with one the most shear stable oils on the market going from a 40 to a 30 that has brought me to the conclusion, along with a recommendation by the Ducati Master Technician at my dealership, to adhere to 15W50 from now on so that when not if it shears, it will still be a 40 weight (most likely) by the end of the service interval. I should note that the oil run referred to above was not the full Ducati 7500 (miles) it was about 4500.


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Last edited by Bonaventure; Apr 16th, 2014 at 9:45 am.
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