Quick question about red key replacement - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 2008, 5:11 pm Thread Starter
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Quick question about red key replacement

I have a chance to pick up a Ducati Monster pretty cheap that has one black key, no red key and being a Duc owner I understand the severity of that one ignorant engineering feat by Ducati tied to the red and the ignition (and yes, I am an engineer).

I believe I read on here somewhere that there is now someone making an over-ride key so that one doesn't have to buy the $2000 worth of guages and electrics.

Any help would be appreciated.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 2008, 5:24 pm
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You might be thinking of this post https://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=40653 which had information about getting replacement black keys.
Bill W.

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 2008, 5:37 pm Thread Starter
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Thanks. I just called and he charges $55 for two keys...but

Quote:
Originally Posted by ducsbill View Post
You might be thinking of this post https://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=40653 which had information about getting replacement black keys.
Bill W.
But I also read somewhere that someone is now making an over-ride for the red key based on your black key. Supposed to have been on Ebay and was like $500 guaranteed to work.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 2008, 6:23 pm
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Originally Posted by RedBrutale View Post
But I also read somewhere that someone is now making an over-ride for the red key based on your black key. Supposed to have been on Ebay and was like $500 guaranteed to work.
Don't see how this can be possible. I've never heard of any kind of 'master key' that can override a RED key. Each key has a unique code and that code gets stored in the immobilizer. There are places on the web that can clone the code of an existing key to a new key, but you physically have to have the RED key to be able to clone it.

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 2008, 12:29 am
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If you have the Red key, you can clone new black keys

If not, you can take your black key to a locksmith with a cloner and he/she/it can do it for you.

Programming with the Red key, you must program 2 black keys....not one, not 3, but 2.

Guy on Ebay sometimes runs an add for making you a new red key....for $500.
Only reason the red one is important is to be able to self-clone more black ones.

Keys are $35 each at the dealer, pick up a few, have them cut/cloned by a locksmith, and go riding

The roads are flat I bought a harley!
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 2008, 1:29 am
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Not to encourage or inform those thinking of stealing a bike, but... if you replace the ECU you will not need a red key, so if there is a DP ECU or Nemesis available that will run your bike, you could kill 2-3 birds with one stone and both hop up the bike and avoid the red key in one simple operation. Totally dependent on your model and what's available for it, of course.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 2008, 2:41 am
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Originally Posted by axismotorrad View Post
Not to encourage or inform those thinking of stealing a bike, but... if you replace the ECU you will not need a red key, so if there is a DP ECU or Nemesis available that will run your bike, you could kill 2-3 birds with one stone and both hop up the bike and avoid the red key in one simple operation. Totally dependent on your model and what's available for it, of course.
Do you know this for a fact because of personal experience? The reason I ask is because what you say does not correspond with what I've been told. There's a lot of misinformation going around about immobilizers, ECUs and key codes. This is my basic understanding of the whole affair.

If you replace a coded ECU with a new one and you have a valid BLACK key, you can start the bike just fine. The ECU will remain uncoded and you can use it on another bike if you need to. However, if you use the valid RED key to start the bike, the ECU will become paired with the immobilizer (i.e. coded) and cannot be used on a different bike from that point on.

If you replace a coded ECU with a new one and you have an invalid BLACK key (i.e. a BLACK key that is not recognized by the immobilizer), the bike won't start. The immobilizer will not send a start signal to the ECU.

The key to success here is the immobilizer. That's where the valid and recognized key codes are stored. If you don't have a RED key, you cannot program any new BLACK keys into the immobilizer. If you have a valid BLACK key, you can clone it to create a spare key but it will share the same code as the original. If the immobilizer stops recognizing that code for whatever reason, both keys will be useless.

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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 2008, 6:53 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axismotorrad View Post
Not to encourage or inform those thinking of stealing a bike, but... if you replace the ECU you will not need a red key, so if there is a DP ECU or Nemesis available that will run your bike, you could kill 2-3 birds with one stone and both hop up the bike and avoid the red key in one simple operation. Totally dependent on your model and what's available for it, of course.

Absolutely incorrect

Based upon personal experience....

The DASH and the key are the immobilizer. You can juggle ECU's all day long, but once the dash has been coded to a key, it won't do anything.

The immobilizer system works by reading the key, and sending a signal to the ECU from the dash. The DASH is what houses the immobilizer, and what sends the signal to the ECU telling it it's OK to start.

I don't know where all the mis-information comes/came about, but I've messed with multiple bikes now, and had 4 or 5 dashs/locksets pass through my hands, and thats how it works.

Dash/lockset are coded together. You can swap in a virgin ECU, but that doesn't change the need for a red key at all. You would still need a red key to "code" additional black keys (and you can only do 2 at a time, so 2/4/6/ etc).

The DP ECU is just a tuned ECU, it doesn't get rid of anything.

The Nemisis, OTOH, will remove the immobilizer completely.

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 2008, 8:26 am
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The DASH is what houses the immobilizer.

I have no experience dealing with the keys and whatnot (thankfully), but I can tell you that not all bikes have the immobilizer in the dash. On my 03 ST4s, it is a separate little black box under the headlight fairing.

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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 2008, 8:42 am
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I apologize, I thought we were talking about the xx9 superbikes.

I do not have any direct experience with the monster's immobilizer. It would, however, be more than safe (IMHO) to say that the immobilizer ISN'T in the ECU.

The roads are flat I bought a harley!
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