Ask Keith Code!! - Page 3 - - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 579 (permalink) Old Dec 20th, 2006, 2:41 pm
Senior Member
Mike's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Anacortes, WA, USA
Posts: 887
Images: 1
Originally Posted by Badger_WI
Mike - I've been through 4 of Keith's schools now, and he actually addressed this particular point with us during Level 1 while teaching the value of quick-steering the bike at your turn-in point.
This is a little different case because the bike is normally upright at the turn-in point but, in the transition of a chicane, the bike might already be at full lean when the next turn is initiated. Granted, modern sport tires offer so much traction and chassis designs are quicker than in the past so this might not be an issue with typical situations but I'm trying to understand the dynamics involved considering that under low traction conditions or with high trail chassis designs loss of traction during the transition may come into play in unexpected ways. And I'm also trying to understand the real world trade-offs of chassis designs that vary in steering quickness.

Mike Mullen
2002 STealTH Ducati ST4s (x2)
1985 Ducati Mille S2
Mike is offline  
Sponsored Links
post #22 of 579 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 2006, 11:37 am
Senior Member
codedog's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: los angeles, ca,
Posts: 188
questions and answers

I'm still here, my schedule just got a little chopped up and the reply program crashed an answer to the questions you guys posted and ate my 45 minutes of replies...:-(

I'll be back.

codedog is offline  
post #23 of 579 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2006, 11:09 am
Senior Member
rob's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Roseville, Kellyfornia, USA
Posts: 1,182
Images: 18
Yesterday afternoon's mailer from Mr. Code

I received my little newsletter thing from CSS yesterday, and there was a link to an article Keith wrote on crashes. I enjoyed the read, so I thought I'd share it here.

Rob Allen

2001 BMW K1200LTC "BatGirl"
2004 Suzuki DRZ125L
2005 Suzuki DR200 Dual Sport
2007 Yamaha TT-R 50 (for the munchkin)

Be strong enough to stand firm when you're right,
Be humble enough to admit when you're wrong,
And be wise enough to know the difference.
rob is offline  
post #24 of 579 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 2006, 2:33 am
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 241
I don't understand why "hanging off" reduces the lean angle required for a turn. It does seem to work from my experience but I don't know why.
The usual explanation is because of the shift in the CG. If you could take the CG shift idea to its extreme, could you turn without leaning at all?
I would think that a motorcycle turns based on geometry, rake, trail, wheelbase and contact patch. Please explain.

05 999
93 900SS
01 KTM400
cyclebrain is offline  
post #25 of 579 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 2006, 1:51 pm Thread Starter
brianmdavis's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, CA, USA
Posts: 2,008

Thanks for getting this going. I've been absent as you figured out. Snowboarding actually. Heck, so bruised up and tired couldn't even get the energy to open my computer.

As you can see, you're presence here is greatly appreciated......

Folks, Keith is VERY analytical and needs "to the point" questions.

See you at Laguna in March Keith..
brianmdavis is offline  
post #26 of 579 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 2006, 3:56 pm
Senior Member
codedog's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: los angeles, ca,
Posts: 188
some questions and answers

There are several main areas of questions I see so far: Turn Entry Speed, Lines, Steering. If it is all the same to you Iíd rather stay away from the very technical physics areas of riding and chassis design and defer to guys like Tony Foale and others who are dedicated in those areas.

Let me take one of the above, LINES, and see what we can do with it.

One of the major errors when trying to correct any area of riding is to be too general about the problem. The second error is not setting any kind of goal to achieve. The third is not arriving at a simple enough, step by step way to approach and handle that area of riding.

Figuring out specifically which kinds of turns a rider had line problems would be a first step: slow turns, decreasing radius turns, big sweepers, etc., which ones are difficult.

An overall goal could be something likeóto be able to make any line work out.

One approach could be to run a wide variety of lines until you were comfortable with all of them.

Taking that idea one step at a time: decide to take a whole ride using only low, tight to the inside lines. Then later or on another ride you would run middle of the road type lines. At another time you would use the wide entry/close to the apex/ wide exit style of riding and ride every turn in that ride in that style.

Rather than the problems of each coming to you in a random pattern you would start to see what is needed to handle each of those situations, depending on what you were trying to accomplish.

In our twice a year Race And Competition Experience program what we do is set up those different turn entry positions and then we radar the exit speeds so riders can see immediately how it affects speed. In that case, speed is an indication of their confidence to use the throttle and the exercise shows them which line is best for that specific purpose.

Yes there are many technical points underlying how to gain confidence with the whole area of lines. If you had a very observant coach following you it would simplify the whole process but that isnít always practical and great coaches donít grow on trees, they are trained.

How are you doing with this type of dialog? Does it help? Itís a new way for me to do forum stuff so I want your reviews please.

codedog is offline  
post #27 of 579 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 2006, 4:11 pm
Senior Member
jneglia's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN, USA
Posts: 575

I see you are on-line. I took the 2-day course this summer at Blackhawk farms in IL from you. Just wanted to say I had a great time and learned a lot. Too bad it's hard to practice up here this time of year.

Joe Neglia

2013 Multistrada 1200S - Red
2006 ST3s - Red -
2006 999s - Red
1999 900SS - Yellow
- gone
jneglia is offline  
post #28 of 579 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 2006, 1:59 pm Thread Starter
brianmdavis's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, CA, USA
Posts: 2,008
Howdy folks,

Please visit Keith's web-site and buy "Twist of the Wrist" Vol. II. It's a quick read with excellent information. Write down the questions you have. Then post...We'll get some very well thought out questions this way...

Happy Holidays!

brianmdavis is offline  
post #29 of 579 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 2006, 8:27 pm
Senior Member
butch's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Asheville, NC,
Posts: 1,402
Images: 6
+1 to what Brian said. Twist of the Wrist 1 & 2 is like the manual for riding better. I re-read both books every winter and refer to them when ever I feel like I am having a problem. These 2 books are the best $40 bucks that you can spend. Imho.

2001 ST2- sold
1998 SuperSport- sold
1989 Honda Hawk gt- yes a Honda
2007 S2R1000
butch is offline  
post #30 of 579 (permalink) Old Dec 26th, 2006, 3:11 pm
Senior Member
MarcP's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Seattle Area, WA, USA
Posts: 326
Keith, here's a question about braking:

How go WSB and MotoGP riders hang on when braking? For me, when I'm doing hard braking from speed I clamp my legs on the tank and get my body low, and I still feel like I'm doing a 100mph handstand. I don't mean the rear tire comes off the ground, but I end up with a lot of pressure on my arms. This makes it harder to finesse the bike, the controls, and setting up for the turn.

I see the MotoGP guys get to the end of a straight, and then they sit up, stick a knee out, and yet brake so hard they're nearly doing a stoppie. Do they simply have huge arm strength or is there a trick I'm missing?
MarcP is offline  
Sponsored Links

Quick Reply

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the - The Ultimate Ducati Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HELP!! Need Factory Paint Code for MY05 Black! jh225 Sport Touring 7 Mar 8th, 2007 4:04 pm
Keith Code to host Q & A brianmdavis Superbikes 17 Dec 16th, 2006 12:30 pm
Paint code info? dpm Ducati Motorcycle Chat 4 Aug 20th, 2006 8:46 pm
Paint code info? dpm Monster 1 May 27th, 2006 4:05 pm

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome