http://www.ducati.ms/forums
» Insurance
» Sponsors
MotorbikeUniverseMcCoyMotorsportsMotorcycle.com Classifieds!Riders Discount
» Sponsors
Go Back   Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum > Ducati Motorcycle Forums > Sport Classic

Cycle Gear
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Sep 19th, 2008, 4:39 pm   #1
toobs1234
Senior Member
 
toobs1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Zurich, , Switzerland
Posts: 263
Lose 4 kilos and that ugly battery box

Apologies if someone posted this already. Bought some Lithium Phosphate batteries and replaced my lead acid. MO magazine in Germany had a brief mention of these batteries--said they would work (can handle the heat unlike lithium polymer). Can't find the place I ordered them from right now, but they are 4 cells each and nominally 13.2V. Just one group of four cells has the same AH as the stock battery, but I figured I'd go for two since they are so small and light. the two together weighed 600 grams, compared to 4700 for the stock battery and box. Will let you know how it goes...

John
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0178.JPG
Views:	1149
Size:	966.8 KB
ID:	37173   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0183.JPG
Views:	1714
Size:	876.3 KB
ID:	37174  
__________________
Paul Smart 1000
toobs1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old Sep 19th, 2008, 5:47 pm   #2
mooner
Senior Member
 
mooner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vancouver, WA, USA
Posts: 667
Interesting idea. You test it for a while and give us a full reports. Now if you moved the voltage regulator into the breeze (since it gets real hot), like the way NCR does, you'd have a place for your two batteries.

__________________
2008 Hypermotard S
mooner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 19th, 2008, 6:04 pm   #3
MajorSoftie
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
Posts: 2,713
Images: 5
Where'd you get the battery packs?
MajorSoftie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 19th, 2008, 6:28 pm   #4
toobs1234
Senior Member
 
toobs1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Zurich, , Switzerland
Posts: 263
ahhh. finally found the web site:

http://akku-onlineversand.de/index.p...O4--A123-.html

it looks, though, like you can buy them at just about any Radio Control hobby store:

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=6444

Here is some more on these LiFePO4 (A123) batteries:

http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/baffledbybatteries4.shtml
http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/blog2...-to-take-over/
__________________
Paul Smart 1000
toobs1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 19th, 2008, 7:23 pm   #5
MajorSoftie
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
Posts: 2,713
Images: 5
Is our battery only 10AH?

I know, I should go look it up . . .
MajorSoftie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 19th, 2008, 7:37 pm   #6
Sybarite
Lifetime Premium
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Singapore, SG, Singapore
Posts: 42
The RC articles all mention that these batteries need a LiFePo/A123 specific charger.

Not sure why - is the charging cycle voltage or current sensitive?
Did you modify anything in the charging circuit ?
Sybarite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 19th, 2008, 8:11 pm   #7
bpracer
Senior Member
 
bpracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: DFW, TX, USA
Posts: 373
I seem to have heard stories about these batteries (Li-Poly???) being kinda' sensitive to charging. As in BOOM if overcharged/overheated.

Just saw these aren't Li-Poly when re-reading first post. Might be OK then.
__________________
06 PS1000LE - Zard's, 999 wheels and calipers
09 848 LeoVince/Fat Duc, Ohlins TTX and fork kit
65 Mustang Vintage Road Racer

Last edited by bpracer; Sep 19th, 2008 at 8:18 pm. Reason: bad eyesight
bpracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 20th, 2008, 3:27 am   #8
toobs1234
Senior Member
 
toobs1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Zurich, , Switzerland
Posts: 263
OK, have to admit I embarked on this experiment without doing my own research--just relying on the MO article--and my German isn't so good. Did some more research on my own and this is what I came up with:

1) The rated Ah on the stock battery is 10Ah versus 2.3Ah for one A123 pack and 4.6Ah for 2 packs. However, the A123 packs keep up their voltage when discharged better than the lead acid and don't suffer like lead acids do when you deep discharge.

2) Based upon ratings for similar batteries, the stock lead acid battery probably provides around 170 cranking amps vs 120 (10 seconds) for one A123 packs and 240 for 2...glad I went for two packs.

3) Charging batteries seems to be based upon two variables: max amperage and max voltage. When initially charging a discharged battery, you want to limit the amount of current it absorbs (constant current phase). The A123s are rated at 3A per pack for standard charge and 10A in fast charge mode. I am not sure about the lead acid, but I believe they are rated for far less (anybody know this for a fact?).

After a while of charging in constant current mode, the voltage of the battery rises and you want to keep it from going higher than a max voltage (constant voltage). For lead acid batteries, this voltage is 13.6volts, but more sophisticated charges will provide 14.4V for a while, then reduce to 13.6V for charge maintenance. The A123s are rated at 14.4V (4 in series) constant voltage charging. I measured the voltage being provided to the batteries by the motorcycle and it came in at 14.2V--just about perfect. One thing I don't know is if it is OK to continuously charge the A123s at 14.4V. The positive, though, is I haven't read anything that says it shouldn't be done. Plus it's not like I ride my motorcycle continuously.

The tricky bit with charging the A123s seems to be cell balancing--although you may have 14.4 volts in total across the 4 cells, it is possible to have one cell at 5.1 volts and the other cells at 3.1V--for example. Although the A123s seem to be tolerant of some overcharging, if it's too much you will lose a cell. The good news here is that when the cells fail they don't explode/catch on fire. The cell packs have individual leads to each cell so that you could build a balancing circuit to avoid this. A123 systems actually sells lead acid replacement batteries with built in balancing circuits:

http://www.gyllingteknik.se/a123/ALM...nfidential.pdf

I'm going to try my luck without the balancing circuit. Reading the Radio Control web sites, there seem to be a lot of people going without balancing circuits without trouble. The tricky bit seems to be initially charging the batteries from a deep discharge--I don't plan on encountering that too often. If they are already fully charged and in balance, then they seem to stay that way--fingers crossed. BTW my batteries came fully charged. Will let you know if I lose a battery.

So to sum up, still don't know everything, but they seem to OK with the addition of a balancing circuit. Time will tell how they do without one.

regards

oh, here is the spec cheet:

http://a123systems.textdriven.com/pr...UGUST_2008.pdf
__________________
Paul Smart 1000
toobs1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 20th, 2008, 4:19 am   #9
Muschi
Senior Member
 
Muschi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Deutschland we say, ,
Posts: 2,709
hi there in switzerland.

as a german, i came across that article too,
and did some research also.

here is a nice link to the web-site of mr.
thomas durbahn, who has some experience
with the li-po's already, and sells them in
soldered packs.
There is some good information on his side.

cheers.


http://shop.durbahn.de/shop/en/produ...superlight_%21
__________________
guzzi please, with 18" and tonti frame.
Muschi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 20th, 2008, 12:36 pm   #10
MajorSoftie
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
Posts: 2,713
Images: 5
Hmm, interesting. The Durbahn site is entirely focused on total loss systems for the track and quick chargers in the pits. There's no information on they're site about running these with the stock charging system, although they do make a tiny mention that you can.
MajorSoftie is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 8:20 am.

Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Kawasaki ForumDucati ForumHarley DavidsonYamaha R1BMW S1000RR Forum
Vulcan Forums Ducati MonsterV-Rod Forum Yamaha R6 Kawasaki Z1000
Kawasaki ZX Forum Honda 600RR Harley ForumYZF-R6 ForumSportbike Forum
Kawasaki ZX-10RHonda 1000RRSuzuki SVYamaha FZ8Can Am Spyder
Kawasaki KLR 650Honda RC51Suzuki V-StromStar Motorcycles Aprilia Forum
Kawasaki VersysHonda FurySuzuki GSXR Triumph ForumKTM Forum
Kawasaki EX-500Honda GoldwingGSX-R ForumTriumph 675Victory Forums

Ducati.ms Web Community is powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.