Fueling woes...

[bmartinek]

So when I first bought my Hyper I had the now classic stalling issue. Pull in the clutch when it was warm at a light and BAM it dies.

I contacted DNA at which point they said that it could take a month or two to fix, and really they didn't know how to fix it at the time. I got tired of agueing with them and got a Quat-D exhaust and a DP Cams ECU.

Fast forward a couple years later...

In January I took my Hyper into Nichols for its 7500 mile tune up and had them do the cam adjustment and dyno it at which point they said that the DP ECU with that pipe was probably making less HP than a stock system. They thought the combination of the short pipe and the ECU just didn't work well together. I kind of shrugged because I was not about to go back to the closed loop fuel injection and the stalling issue. Also the bike ran like a top and the cam timing change did give it a bit more grunt. Best $150 mod you can get.

Over the last month or so I noticed my Hyper backfiring when off throttle (lean condition I suspect) and then last night coming across the bay bridge my bike stalled once and hiccuped a couple times with a small constant throttle position, as well a blipping to get through traffic. This was not exactly confidence inspiring, lane splitting through heavy traffic.

So I need suggestions...

I am considering moving back to the stock ECU with a Fat Duc, people seem to rave about it.

Also I wanted to look into the Duc shop intake since I hear very good things about that setup as well, and I need to have the TPS reset anyways. Is there a way to do that at home?

Given the combination of the full exhaust and the intake would I need a power commander as well?

Does the Fat Duc and Power Commander play well together?

Any help would be great, thanks in advance!

[dukepilot]

From your post, you stated that the bike ran like a top until a month ago, when it started backfiring/stalling/hiccuping. I suggest that you identify the cause of these conditions first, before installing the fatduc, stacks, PC.

The cause could be a variety or combination of things :

1. Fuel trim adjustment on your DP ECU
2. It might need a TPS reset
3. Air bleed adjustment
4. Throttle bodies need to be synchronized
5. Check belt tension
6. Spark plugs gone bad (put in some iridium plugs)
7. Exhaust leak
8. Check electrical connections and spark plug leads
9. Intake air leak

You can do a TPS reset and fuel trim adjustment on a DP ECU at home if you get the VDSTS software/cable. You'll need a gas analyzer however to properly set the fuel trim.

A good place to start is to think back in time to when the problems started. Did you make any changes or perform any maintenance on the bike? If so, double check your work.

One option is to take it back to Nichols to have them check it out. I would not however, start swapping out parts before first identifying what is going on with your bike. In other words, get it to run as well as it was before, then you can think about mods to increase performance.

Originally Posted by bmartinek

So when I first bought my Hyper I had the now classic stalling issue. Pull in the clutch when it was warm at a light and BAM it dies.

I contacted DNA at which point they said that it could take a month or two to fix, and really they didn't know how to fix it at the time. I got tired of agueing with them and got a Quat-D exhaust and a DP Cams ECU.

Fast forward a couple years later...

In January I took my Hyper into Nichols for its 7500 mile tune up and had them do the cam adjustment and dyno it at which point they said that the DP ECU with that pipe was probably making less HP than a stock system. They thought the combination of the short pipe and the ECU just didn't work well together. I kind of shrugged because I was not about to go back to the closed loop fuel injection and the stalling issue. Also the bike ran like a top and the cam timing change did give it a bit more grunt. Best $150 mod you can get.

Over the last month or so I noticed my Hyper backfiring when off throttle (lean condition I suspect) and then last night coming across the bay bridge my bike stalled once and hiccuped a couple times with a small constant throttle position, as well a blipping to get through traffic. This was not exactly confidence inspiring, lane splitting through heavy traffic.

So I need suggestions...

I am considering moving back to the stock ECU with a Fat Duc, people seem to rave about it.

Also I wanted to look into the Duc shop intake since I hear very good things about that setup as well, and I need to have the TPS reset anyways. Is there a way to do that at home?

Given the combination of the full exhaust and the intake would I need a power commander as well?

Does the Fat Duc and Power Commander play well together?

Any help would be great, thanks in advance!

[bmartinek]

Thanks DukePilot, you make some good very suggestions! You are correct, its typically a bad idea to introduce new parts to a problem.

When I had the tune up, they put new plugs in and no maintenance has been performed since then. So it seems that a TPS and fuel system adjustment might be necessary. Possible it could be exhaust leak, I will have to double check.

As it seems with all Hypers, the throttle was still a bit snatchy at low RPMs. Any way to tune that out? Also since the DP ECU was making less power, going back to stock seems appealing, especially with the supposed smoothness of the Fat Duc.

If I wanted to put the intake in anyways it seems like a waste of money to have the ECU tuned twice. But since the stock one can't be adjusted...

I could be way off base here, but just my current reasoning.

[dukepilot]

You can minimize/eliminate the snatchy throttle by adjusting your throttle cables to remove excessive free play in the cables, just make sure you've got a little free play when the bars are turned to full lock in either direction. Also, by carefully adjusting the fuel trim, throttle body synch and air bleed screws you can eliminate stalling and poor throttle response.

As for performance, when you installed the DP ECU and exhaust, did you have the fuel trim adjusted? Did you install the DP airbox lid? Are you running a DB killer in your exhaust? How do your spark plugs look? Are they black, which indicate a rich condition?

If the DP ECU was properly setup for your bike and you installed the DP airbox lid it should run pretty good. I guess you could have a bad ECU but I would not start with that assumption. It is unlikely that the DP ECU is the cause for poor performance, it is more likely a setup issue.

You could install the stock ECU and spend the money on a fatduc to see how it runs but I would do the basic trouble shooting first before making any further changes. Besides you already spent the money for the DP ECU, may as well get it running correctly with that ECU. Have the belts checked, fuel trim set to around 4% CO and have the throttle bodies synched and balanced. The cost of doing this shouldn't be too much.

One other suggestion, if you plan on installing stacks, I would stick with the DP ECU because the stacks will require more fuel than the stock ECU can provide, even with the fatduc. The fatduc only provides more fuel during the closed loop operation of the stock ECU. It does not provide the additional fuel you'll likely need at higher RPMs/throttle positions. When you install the stacks, you should have the fuel trim adjusted again, but that should be a minor cost. You might want to invest in the VDSTS tool or find someone close by who has one and knows how to use it.

Originally Posted by bmartinek

Thanks DukePilot, you make some good very suggestions!

When I had the tune up, they put new plugs in and no maintenance has been performed since then. So it seems that a TPS and fuel system adjustment might be necessary. Possible it could be exhaust leak, I will have to double check.

As it seems with all Hypers, the throttle was still a bit snatchy at low RPMs. Any way to tune that out? Also since the DP ECU was making less power, going back to stock seems appealing, especially with the supposed smoothness of the Fat Duc.

If I wanted to put the intake in anyways it seems like a waste of money to have the ECU tuned twice. But since the stock one can't be adjusted...

I could be way off base here, but just my current reasoning.

[bmartinek]

I think the cables are in pretty good shape, I haven't noticed any excessive machanical play there.

The fuel trim and bleed screws were adjusted several times, once when I installed the pipe and ECU. A second time, when I told Munroe Motors that it was hard starting. Honeslty it has never been perfect. Even after the tune up it was still hard starting. On a cold day you could push the button it would turn over until the timer would run out and then and the second attempt it would usually start. The combination of DNA and Munroe motors was not a great one to getting the problem sorted.

Currently its a completely stock intake setup, stock filter and regular airbox lid, not drilled or the DP airbox lid.

The belts were checked and infact I had the pleasure of having a rock embedded into one of them necessitating the need for a new set at the tune up

I doubt its the ECU as well, but once about 4 months ago while riding along at a constant throttle at 35MPH I just had the whole bike die on me. It wasn't the battery either, really weird. It was like my Hyper had a kernel panic. I powered it completely off and on again, and didn't have a problems after. Honestly this bike has had more problems than any other i have purchased, its saving grace is its good looks and grin factor.

I will take a look at the exhaust tonight if I have time. Living in SF and have Southbay job are bad for daylight time.

By the way thanks, for taking the time to write some very well thought out articulate answers to my problem.

[Steve C]

I gotta agree with Dukepilot, don't change anything (other than maybe the plugs) until you eliminate all the possibilities with the current configuration that was performing will. Start with the simple things like an exhaust leak going into the QD box muffler, TB sync, etc. etc. I've read a few things about the fuel trim and sure won't claim any expertise here but some suggest a delta between the cylinders to help with the rear cylinder cooling. Just a short story of a recent event at my office, one of my coworkers has a string trimmer (weedwacker) like mine Stihl FS-130, crazy little 4 stroke you run premix in since it has no oil sump. Anywho, his would not run at full power under load, he was ready to trade it in, give it away, you get the idea. I suggested a new plug, some carb cleaner and a new air filter. The thing runs like a champ now, so the KISS theory works, sometimes.......... And thumbs up to the Iridiums, they do work well. Hank Scott, AMA Hall of Fame #14 in the Flat Track world is an engine builder now and recommends them, which is way good enough for me!

[dukepilot]

You're running the stock airbox lid with the DP ECU... that is one of your problems right off the top. This ECU needs more air to get to the engine, you are probably running way too rich. The airbox lid alone is worth at least a couple of HP. Your bike should start immediately and not stall, even when cold. But if you're engine is choked for air, you're going to have problems.

This is what you could do...install the stacks or at least drill out your stock airbox lid and reinstall. Install some new spark plugs. See how it runs. This will probably improve performance by quite a bit. You'll probably benefit from some further tweaking of the fuel trim and I would have someone else (other than Munroe) balance the throttle bodies but the restrictive stock airbox lid sounds like the first thing you should address.

Originally Posted by bmartinek

I think the cables are in pretty good shape, I haven't noticed any excessive machanical play there.

The fuel trim and bleed screws were adjusted several times, once when I installed the pipe and ECU. A second time, when I told Munroe Motors that it was hard starting. Honeslty it has never been perfect. Even after the tune up it was still hard starting. On a cold day you could push the button it would turn over until the timer would run out and then and the second attempt it would usually start. The combination of DNA and Munroe motors was not a great one to getting the problem sorted.

Currently its a completely stock intake setup, stock filter and regular airbox lid, not drilled or the DP airbox lid.

The belts were checked and infact I had the pleasure of having a rock embedded into one of them necessitating the need for a new set at the tune up

I doubt its the ECU as well, but once about 4 months ago while riding along at a constant throttle at 35MPH I just had the whole bike die on me. It wasn't the battery either, really weird. I was like my Hyper had a kernel panic. I powered it completely off and on again, and didn't have a problems after. Honestly this bike has had more problems than any other i have purchased, its saving grace is its good looks and grin factor.

I will take a look at the exhaust tonight if I have time. Living in SF and have Southbay job are bad for daylight time.

By the way thanks, for taking the time to write some very well thought out articulate answers to my problem.

[bmartinek]

Sounds good I will check the plugs a possibly just drill a hole in teh stock lid. Lets see where that goes.