Power modification path

[robacks]

Bike: 2008 Hyper S stock. 4000 miles

Ok, so I have been reading this site for the past 6 months and have discovered an almost unlimited amount of information and opinions. The questions I have are what is the most effective path for engine performance and power? I come from a turbo auto background so some of the information I have does not apply. My goal is to have a reliable but powerful build. I know suspension and bike protection (sliders) needs to be addressed but I will post a different thread for those discussions.

Here is the path I have researched so far:

Intake: Some sort of stack system to open up the intake to allow free flow of air. From the dyno results it seems to help in the top end of the power curve for the most part. Questions: Are there any issues with water, engine heat, would the top end effect negate the need for cams?

Internal Engine: Let’s not go there yet, perhaps around one of the service times or during the winter we can look into this. For now let’s keep this simple. I want to ride the bike not keep it in the garage all summer.

Exhaust: Now hears the kicker, there seem to be a lot of options out there.
Option 1: Full Termi exhaust with ECU
Option 2: Full Zard, Arrow, etc full exhaust (No DP ECU)
Option 3: Create my own kit, DP ECU from ebay, Pipes from Zard, Arrow, etc, Slip on from Termi, etc.

Electronic engine management: Here is where my information gets a little fuzzy.

Will the DP ECU with the Termi handle the current list of mods? Or should I look to piece together the build and get a programmable ECU. I am in Atlanta so the DucShop is just up the road if that helps. At least I have an excellent local resource for help when I need it.

Now, here is where I call on the experienced members of the forum:
Let me know what you think about the proposed path. Don’t flame me too bad it all about the learning curve…. and cost is always considered. There comes a time when there is a diminishing rate of return.

[08hyper]

IMHO, steps I would do..... step I (stock engine)

1. open top & bottom of air box install a K&N/BMC/ or DNA performance air filter
2. install cat eliminator
This is the most you can do without changing the ECU, it will run a little lean
but will still be safe, you will gain 5-6HP, have throatier exhaust note, better throttle response.

Step II (stock engine)
1. Buy the DP cams kit, comes with a new ECU, install just the ECU
2. now you can go to a full exhaust system or slip-ons,
3. Reset the TPS, this will get you another 2-3 HP

Step III (stock engine with cams)
1. install DP cams (at 7500mi) you will have to do the valve adjustment
anyways, so save some money.
2. Reset the TPS, this will get you another 2-3 HP and the motor will come
alive from mid to top.

Step IV (stock engine with cams & intake system)
1. Install intake system from Ducshop or TPO (Beast "R")
2. Install Power Commander and get a dyno mapping, as the bike will now run lean.
This set-upwill now add 4-6 HP this is where I would recommend that most normal people to stop,
as the bike will run GREAT!

Step V (all of the above + $$) Now it gets to be big $$$
This is for power nuts (like me) you can do.......
1. full porting with oversized intake valves, enlarged intake manifolds
2. High compression pistons stock bore (1078cc) or
3. Bigbore kit using 100mm HC pistons (1123cc)
4. lightened race crank, rods, flywheel (completely rebalanced)
5. Ceramic coatings on pistons & combustion chambers
6. Ceramic crankcase bearings
7. etc,etc,etc,
Step V will get you into the neighborhood of about 104-108 HP at the rear wheel! hope this helps,
Aloha Alex with the "MODII"

Dyno runs MOD I vs MOD II

[Borracho]

+1 on the above. Alex knows what he's talking 'bout.

I was going to follow the same outline had I kept my Hyper. Cam and headwork at the 7500mi service.

Alex; how 'reliable' do you think your motor is now? I only know from some of my old 'Harley' friends; when they built up their motors or went with full blown S&S stuff, their bikes ran like crap. Fast, but not really good as 'daily drivers'...

[AXE]

Originally Posted by 08hyper

IMHO, steps I would do..... step I (stock engine)

1. open top & bottom of air box install a K&N/BMC/ or DNA performance air filter
2. install cat eliminator
This is the most you can do without changing the ECU, it will run a little lean
but will still be safe, you will gain 5-6HP, have throatier exhaust note, better throttle response.

Step II (stock engine)
1. Buy the DP cams kit, comes with a new ECU, install just the ECU
2. now you can go to a full exhaust system or slip-ons,
3. Reset the TPS, this will get you another 2-3 HP

Step III (stock engine with cams)
1. install DP cams (at 7500mi) you will have to do the valve adjustment
anyways, so save some money.
2. Reset the TPS, this will get you another 2-3 HP and the motor will come
alive from mid to top.

Step IV (stock engine with cams & intake system)
1. Install intake system from Ducshop or TPO (Beast "R")
2. Install Power Commander and get a dyno mapping, as the bike will now run lean.
This set-upwill now add 4-6 HP this is where I would recommend that most normal people to stop,
as the bike will run GREAT!

Step V (all of the above + $$) Now it gets to be big $$$
This is for power nuts (like me) you can do.......
1. full porting with oversized intake valves, enlarged intake manifolds
2. High compression pistons stock bore (1078cc) or
3. Bigbore kit using 100mm HC pistons (1123cc)
4. lightened race crank, rods, flywheel (completely rebalanced)
5. Ceramic coatings on pistons & combustion chambers
6. Ceramic crankcase bearings
7. etc,etc,etc,
Step V will get you into the neighborhood of about 104-108 HP at the rear wheel! hope this helps,
Aloha Alex with the "MODII"

Very logical and effective.

Don't forget the 20W50W oil.

Out!

[Motoman_AZ]

ROBACKS.... great question!!!! And so glad you didn't get harassed to read 10,000 posts!

08Hyper you da man! Thank you so much for laying all that out for us! Very logical...and great info!

Originally Posted by 08hyper

IMHO, steps I would do..... step I (stock engine)

1. open top & bottom of air box install a K&N/BMC/ or DNA performance air filter
2. install cat eliminator
This is the most you can do without changing the ECU, it will run a little lean
but will still be safe, you will gain 5-6HP, have throatier exhaust note, better throttle response.

Step II (stock engine)
1. Buy the DP cams kit, comes with a new ECU, install just the ECU
2. now you can go to a full exhaust system or slip-ons,
3. Reset the TPS, this will get you another 2-3 HP

Step III (stock engine with cams)
1. install DP cams (at 7500mi) you will have to do the valve adjustment
anyways, so save some money.
2. Reset the TPS, this will get you another 2-3 HP and the motor will come
alive from mid to top.

Step IV (stock engine with cams & intake system)
1. Install intake system from Ducshop or TPO (Beast "R")
2. Install Power Commander and get a dyno mapping, as the bike will now run lean.
This set-upwill now add 4-6 HP this is where I would recommend that most normal people to stop,
as the bike will run GREAT!

Step V (all of the above + $$) Now it gets to be big $$$
This is for power nuts (like me) you can do.......
1. full porting with oversized intake valves, enlarged intake manifolds
2. High compression pistons stock bore (1078cc) or
3. Bigbore kit using 100mm HC pistons (1123cc)
4. lightened race crank, rods, flywheel (completely rebalanced)
5. Ceramic coatings on pistons & combustion chambers
6. Ceramic crankcase bearings
7. etc,etc,etc,
Step V will get you into the neighborhood of about 104-108 HP at the rear wheel! hope this helps,
Aloha Alex with the "MODII"

[Shazaam]

There was a time when Ducati engineers were constrained mainly by cost and reliability when delivering performance bikes for the street. Now environmental regulatory concerns and safety standards are part of the equation.

It costs money to make current model superbikes much quicker and faster reliably. There are many opinions on what is best. Make sure the stock machine is properly tuned and adjusted first. This can make a Ducati much faster for very little money.

Handling is truly awesome in stock trim, riding school and track time pay huge dividends. Optimizing the suspension and tire combination is usually a cheap way to make the bike work better and ultimately be quicker/faster for a given rider.

Ducatis are not as light as current Japanese machines. Weight reduction is easy, but expensive. One may remove any extraneous equipment (tool kit, reflectors, etc.) then start a diet of light weight wheels, fairings, batteries, swing arm, fuel tank, chain & sprockets, nuts & bolts, carbon anything, etc. (the sky is the limit here)

Power is not as strong as it can be. The most popular mod's of lighter flywheel, shorter gearing, aftermarket silencers, chip upgrade, and airbox upgrades doesn't help power that much. It usually helps reduce weight as much as add power and with flywheel and gearing you give up drivability. and traction off corners to gain acceleration.

Higher compression pistons, increased displacement, fuel system changes, port work, cams, valves, crank work, rods, and full exhaust systems work. These things help level the field by making more power when done correctly. When pushed to the limits engine life and service costs suffer.

My opinion is simple. Build a balanced package based on how you'll really ride the bike. That is a hard thing to do for many of us, myself included. Don't forget the biggest performance boost of all, rider improvement.

That said, here are some points to consider for any modification:

Performance Criteria

• Smooth and tractable power delivery
• Increased torque and horsepower
• Improved throttle response
• Good reliability
• Maintainable
• Good performance characteristics over a wide range of traffic conditions and ambient temperatures
• Safety
• Good handling (stability and control) over a wide range of road surfaces

Performance Improvement

• More air + more fuel = more power
• Higher efficiency via higher compression ratio and temperatures
• Reduced pumping and frictional losses
• Reduced weight and inertia

Methodology

• More displacement
• More compression
• Air intake tuning
• Exhaust system tuning
• Lightweight components
• Blueprinting
• Tighter tolerances and accurate dimensions
• Premium components
• Larger capacity components

Trade-Offs

• Significant dyno development time and expense
• Frequent rebuilds and component replacement
• Increased maintenance
• Higher fuel octane requirements
• Increased cooling system demands
• Increased operating temperatures
• Uneven power delivery at low and mid-range rpms
• Poor idle
• Increased component wear
• Reduced safety margins
• Reduced reliability
• Reduced fuel mileage
• Increased noise and exhaust emissions
• Decreased comfort

Get Educated

http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/report.htm

http://www.bikeboy.org/performance.html

[Monstaman]

Originally Posted by Shazaam

Don't forget the biggest performance boost of all, rider improvement.

Well said (as usual), you don't need to spend moonbeams of money to make a bike go faster, point is how many of you guys ride at WOT all day through the tight stuff and all ..... 0% ... thus buckets more power is not essential ... just more fun to a point.

Get educated on correct suspension setup and most of all riding skill.

[Chouch]

If I was to start again the modification game with a brand new Hyper, here's what I would do :

1st / DP collectors kit, that comes with a DP ECU.
2nd / Any 2-2 exhaust, Termi, Fresco, Zard...
3rd/ Ducshop stacks.

I would stop here for power performance upgrade, and would then focus on handling, with a great fork job (25mm cart) and something for the shock.


Going for the 100 rwhp mark could be a fun challenge, and getting there keeping a great reliability could become a very expensive game.

[yabo0569]

I just put the cam ecu on my bike, I only have a mivv slipon. the mechanic at the ducati dealer told me that I don't need to reset the TPS unless the bike runs bad. Is that true? He didn't reset the TPS. the bike runs ok just a little rougher on the low rpms.

[08hyper]

Originally Posted by Borracho

+1 on the above. Alex knows what he's talking 'bout.

I was going to follow the same outline had I kept my Hyper. Cam and headwork at the 7500mi service.

Alex; how 'reliable' do you think your motor is now? I only know from some of my old 'Harley' friends; when they built up their motors or went with full blown S&S stuff, their bikes ran like crap. Fast, but not really good as 'daily drivers'...

Hopefully my Motor of Death II will be more reliable than the "MOD I" the reason is that the "lightweight" crankshaft & rods have less mass, so it will

have LESS "spinning gyro effect," which should translate to less force on the crankshaft bearings when pitching the bike left & right over & over, like on

the track & canyons. The rod bearings were set up to the looser Corsa racing specs, and the crankshaft bearings were set-up with less preload.

Basically the bottom end was "blueprinted" The ceramic crank bearings are supposed to out last the steel bearings 10 to 1, so they say.....and the

whole thing was rebalanced to the bigbore pistons, and is now my motor is "ultra smooth" so that was my goal when building my MOD II, more reliability.

Aloha Alex

PS: to me my bike is as easy to ride as when it was stock, only now its sooo much funner!

Dyno runs between MOD I vs MOD II