Anybody tuned a DP CAMS ECU for their non-cam bike?

[gdubduc]

Hi guys,

I'm wondering if anyone has used the DP ECU that comes with the cams kit to simply get rid of the 02 sensor on their bike and tune with a PCIII. IF so, is there any way I can buy/have a map to use as a guide?

My bike has the Leo Vince exhaust and cat-removal pipe and a holed airbox. I've done some tuning to the map, but it's a pretty laborious process and I'd like to have something to go by.

Thanks,


Garth

[lelenb]

I have the cams ecu and no cams. It fuels well and has good power and I have never felt the need to add the PC3. I have a cored cat and cored stock exhaust with Duc Shop velocity stacks and pods. Peter reset the TPS and we went with 3% CO which was +8 or so and life is good. I have to gingerly roll on the throttle when I get on the highway to keep the front end down even though I am a fat ass and lean over the bars to weight the front. I would try just the ECU, TPS reset, throttle body sync and fuel trim and see how it works for you before spending the extra cash. The ECU advances the timing a bit I believe plus a 18% fuel increase 0% trim.

[gdubduc]

Yeah, it's the 18% that I'm worried about. There's no way the bike needs that much fuel. I dropped most of the fuel table values about 10%, but part throttle is still an issue.


Garth

Originally Posted by lelenb

I have the cams ecu and no cams. It fuels well and has good power and I have never felt the need to add the PC3. I have a cored cat and cored stock exhaust with Duc Shop velocity stacks and pods. Peter reset the TPS and we went with 3% CO which was +8 or so and life is good. I have to gingerly roll on the throttle when I get on the highway to keep the front end down even though I am a fat ass and lean over the bars to weight the front. I would try just the ECU, TPS reset, throttle body sync and fuel trim and see how it works for you before spending the extra cash. The ECU advances the timing a bit I believe plus a 18% fuel increase 0% trim.

[dukepilot]

Originally Posted by gdubduc

Yeah, it's the 18% that I'm worried about. There's no way the bike needs that much fuel. I dropped most of the fuel table values about 10%, but part throttle is still an issue.


Garth

Several of us are running the cam ECU with the stock cams and the bikes run OK. By reducing the fuel values by 10% with the PC, you might be unintentionally creating more problems for yourself. Although the DP cam ECU is said to increase fueling by 18%, it probably is not a flat 18% across the board at all TPS/RPM levels. Also, if you did not reset the TPS to work with the new ECU, your bike is most likely going to run crappy. This is what I would do:

1. Reset the TPS to work with your new ECU. This is absolutely critical.
2. Reset your PC to a zero map (use the default fuel map for your DP ECU)
3. Adjust your fuel trim to 3-4% CO or as Lelen suggested to around +8 as a starting point.
4. Adjust your airbleeds screws to equalize CO output from each cylinder. Generally, these screws should be no more than 1/2 turn out. Sync your throttle bodies. Out of sync throttle bodies and improperly adjusted airbleeds can cause part throttle issues.

You will need a VDSTS to reset the TPS and to adjust your fuel trim. Ideally, you should have access to a gas tester.

On my HM, prior to removing the airbox and installing Beast R stacks I was running essentially the same setup as you have with the default cam ecu fuel map and no power commander. The bike ran very well. After installing the Beast R stacks, I did remap the fuel with a Rapid Bike 3 module and ended up leaning out the bottom and top TPS/RPM ranges while fattening up the mid a little. A search of this forum will show a lot of info and our dyno results.

Your bike should run OK with the DP cam ECU. After doing the above, you can optimize with a custom map for each cylinder, which should smooth things out a little more.

Peter

[gdubduc]

Peter,

I reset the TPS for the new ECU via the power commander, but I'm still running the -10 map. I don't have a CO tester right now- can you recommend one?

I have the VDSTS, but it won't allow me to adjust fuel trim with the PC installed (which is, IMHO, weird). It keeps telling me that the bike has to be at the proper operating temp, even when it's at 240 degrees! Since I can adjust fuel trim with the PCIII, I still have that flexibility though.

Thanks for all of your input!


Garth

Originally Posted by dukepilot

1. Reset the TPS to work with your new ECU. This is absolutely critical.
2. Reset your PC to a zero map (use the default fuel map for your DP ECU)
3. Adjust your fuel trim to 3-4% CO or as Lelen suggested to around +8 as a starting point.
4. Adjust your airbleeds screws to equalize CO output from each cylinder. Generally, these screws should be no more than 1/2 turn out. Sync your throttle bodies. Out of sync throttle bodies and improperly adjusted airbleeds can cause part throttle issues.

You will need a VDSTS to reset the TPS and to adjust your fuel trim. Ideally, you should have access to a gas tester.


Peter

[dave2riff]

In addition to Peter's very good advice above, once you have tried the bike
with the zero map in the PC III, might try the M732-002 map available for
download from the Power Commander web site. This map is intended for
the DP Race ECU _with_ a full Termi setup and DP airbox lid, and it should get
you in the ballpark for tuning with the Leo Vince exhaust. You will notice that
particular map has a lot of large negative corrections in the under 40% throttle
settings, which should help your part throttle ride-ability. The M732-002 map
should be a good starting point for a dyno tune, or it may even be "close enough"
that you are happy with the bike as is.

That said, I would definitely follow steps 1-4 in the post from Dukepilot!

[dukepilot]

Originally Posted by gdubduc

Peter,

I reset the TPS for the new ECU via the power commander, but I'm still running the -10 map. I don't have a CO tester right now- can you recommend one?

I have the VDSTS, but it won't allow me to adjust fuel trim with the PC installed (which is, IMHO, weird). It keeps telling me that the bike has to be at the proper operating temp, even when it's at 240 degrees! Since I can adjust fuel trim with the PCIII, I still have that flexibility though.

Thanks for all of your input!


Garth

Garth, I would start all over. Disconnect/uninstall the power commander and then reset the TPS and fuel trim with the VDSTS. Adjust your airbleeds and sync your throttle bodies as mentioned in my previous post. Once you have done this and it runs well, you can reinstall the PC and tweak the map. When you reset the TPS with your PC, all it did was sync your PC to the TPS, it most likely did not perform the necessary TPS reset with your new DP ECU. The DP ECU needs to be calibrated to your TPS, and your PC also needs to be calibrated to your TPS. These are two separate calibrations. Hope this makes sense.

An inexpensive gastester is made by Gunston. I think they're available from Amazon.com

Ideally, you'll also want to test both cylinders to properly adjust your airbleeds. You will need an adaptor fitting for the bungs in each header, available from Bridge analyzers.

Peter

[dave2riff]

If the TPS reset is being done with a TechnoResearch VDST device, then the
only throttle position sensor zeroing that can be done is the main one for the
bike itself, not for the Power Commander, which the VDST knows nothing about.
Setting the throttle endpoints on the Power Commanders can only be done
with their software.

Also, downloading a 'zero map' to the PC III makes the Power Commander
transparent in terms of tuning-- no changes in fuel injection duration can occur
with the zero map, so there is not generally a need to disconnect the hardware.
Basically, when the PC III sees a zero in the map, it doesn't attempt to do
anything, so it is nearly the same as disconnecting the device as long as the
hardware is fully functional and not damaged in some way.

The VDST failing to adjust fuel trim due to an operating temp condition should
also have nothing whatsoever to do with the PC III. Is there a Fahrenheit/Celsius
temp conversion issue here (bike set to C and VDST thinking F or vice versa)?

[dukepilot]

Originally Posted by dave2riff

If the TPS reset is being done with a TechnoResearch VDST device, then the
only throttle position sensor zeroing that can be done is the main one for the
bike itself, not for the Power Commander, which the VDST knows nothing about.
Setting the throttle endpoints on the Power Commanders can only be done
with their software.

Also, downloading a 'zero map' to the PC III makes the Power Commander
transparent in terms of tuning-- no changes in fuel injection duration can occur
with the zero map, so there is not generally a need to disconnect the hardware.
Basically, when the PC III sees a zero in the map, it doesn't attempt to do
anything, so it is nearly the same as disconnecting the device as long as the
hardware is fully functional and not damaged in some way.

The VDST failing to adjust fuel trim due to an operating temp condition should
also have nothing whatsoever to do with the PC III. Is there a Fahrenheit/Celsius
temp conversion issue here (bike set to C and VDST thinking F or vice versa)?

In reading Garth's post, it sounded like he did not reset the TPS with the VDSTS, so his DP ECU is not calibrated. I suggested removing the PC to eliminate it as a variable in his issues with adjusting fuel trim with his VDSTS. I'm no PC expert but it does seem to be complicating things for him at this point.

[gdubduc]

This is true, though I have reset the TPS before using the VDSTS, so it's no problem doing it again.

The trim value is another issue altogether. I have both the bike and the VDSTS set to Fahrenheit, but something else is keeping me from adjusting the fuel trim via VDSTS.

Also- one question: when you guys talk about fuel trim, are you talking about idle fuel trim or some overall fuel trim?

Thanks again,

GW

Originally Posted by dukepilot

In reading Garth's post, it sounded like he did not reset the TPS with the VDSTS, so his DP ECU is not calibrated. I suggested removing the PC to eliminate it as a variable in his issues with adjusting fuel trim with his VDSTS. I'm no PC expert but it does seem to be complicating things for him at this point.