Lowering Gearing... 44 or 45? 520 or 525? Supersprox or other?

[Jaydash]

Hi guys. My bike is near new but I've realised that the gearing is too high; I have to go into first on occasion and can't ride around roundabouts/ corners properly. To sum it up, quoted from another thread: "For me it is not so much greater acceleration, but hopefully better rideability in town in lower gears".

I want the same: to move out of 1st quicker (everyone else I know moves out of 1st within six foot and never goes back unless they stop). I'm not bothered about lowering the top speed, but conversely, I definitely do not want to be wheelying as I don't have the skills. I just want less clutch-slipping and the revs to be a bit higher at low, town speeds.

So, questions:

i. Not a fan of going to smaller front sprocket, so shall I go for 44 or 45 rear? My KTM was highly-geared at 16/40 (2.50, Hyper is 2.80, so not as bad), but my Husqvarna was 15/45 (3.0) and the latter was fine. But, is the lighter 'single' more suited to that combo, or, will the Hyper be more manic with that gearing, because it has twice the power? I am kind-of hoping someone will recommend 44 (2.93) and say it'll suit me and be a good compromise, but am worried it might be too subtle and cost even more to go to 45.

ii. Do I need to consider the 520 option? To be honest I don't really understand it, apart from that it's a lighter, more race oriented option. Are there downsides, apart from that it might wear more quickly? I won't need to change the sprockets regularly so don't need quick-change option. If someone can explain things and either recommend or not, that would be great. If it's unanimously considered to be the best, I want it. I'm like that. LOL

iii. Whether I'm going for 520 or not, which brand shall I choose? Is there a DP option (just to make things easier, as dealer will do the work) or shall I avoid that and go Supersprox, seeing as I'm in the UK?

iv. If I stick with 525, keeping front sprocket and buying a Supersprox 44 rear for instance, should I consider buying a better quality or lighter counter sprocket of the same size? (15). Sorry if that's a dumb question. Also, do I buy the same brand for everything, as some of you guys seem to have different brands for all three parts. So, if you can recommend specific set-ups, brand of chain, what length etc, that would be ideal as I want to make the change quickly so that I can start enjoying.

Sorry for the lengthy post; all answers and advice greatly appreciated.

[Decreasing Dave]

I typically bump the rear sprocket on all of my bikes by two teeth (up). It usually makes the gearing a little tighter and definitely helps with the low-speed stuff. It doesn't usually effect the top speed enought for me to care, even on my 690SM.

When I get my Hyper, that is exactly what I plan to do.

Dave

[dukepilot]

A 44 or 45 sprocket works well but you will need a longer chain. Get a good quality x or xw ring chain. You can't go wrong with a DID or RK chain. Whether to go with a 520 or 525 is a matter of weight savings and possibly shorter chain life with the 520. I like the supersprox because of the steel chain ring. Aluminum sprockets will generally wear faster than steel. While your at it, get a new c/s sprocket to go with your new chain and rear sprocket. You could use the old sprocket but a new one is relatively inexpensive.

Originally Posted by Jaydash

Hi guys. My bike is near new but I've realised that the gearing is too high; I have to go into first on occasion and can't ride around roundabouts/ corners properly. To sum it up, quoted from another thread: "For me it is not so much greater acceleration, but hopefully better rideability in town in lower gears".

I want the same: to move out of 1st quicker (everyone else I know moves out of 1st within six foot and never goes back unless they stop). I'm not bothered about lowering the top speed, but conversely, I definitely do not want to be wheelying as I don't have the skills. I just want less clutch-slipping and the revs to be a bit higher at low, town speeds.

So, questions:

i. Not a fan of going to smaller front sprocket, so shall I go for 44 or 45 rear? My KTM was highly-geared at 16/40 (2.50, Hyper is 2.80, so not as bad), but my Husqvarna was 15/45 (3.0) and the latter was fine. But, is the lighter 'single' more suited to that combo, or, will the Hyper be more manic with that gearing, because it has twice the power? I am kind-of hoping someone will recommend 44 (2.93) and say it'll suit me and be a good compromise, but am worried it might be too subtle and cost even more to go to 45.

ii. Do I need to consider the 520 option? To be honest I don't really understand it, apart from that it's a lighter, more race oriented option. Are there downsides, apart from that it might wear more quickly? I won't need to change the sprockets regularly so don't need quick-change option. If someone can explain things and either recommend or not, that would be great. If it's unanimously considered to be the best, I want it. I'm like that. LOL

iii. Whether I'm going for 520 or not, which brand shall I choose? Is there a DP option (just to make things easier, as dealer will do the work) or shall I avoid that and go Supersprox, seeing as I'm in the UK?

iv. If I stick with 525, keeping front sprocket and buying a Supersprox 44 rear for instance, should I consider buying a better quality or lighter counter sprocket of the same size? (15). Sorry if that's a dumb question. Also, do I buy the same brand for everything, as some of you guys seem to have different brands for all three parts. So, if you can recommend specific set-ups, brand of chain, what length etc, that would be ideal as I want to make the change quickly so that I can start enjoying.

Sorry for the lengthy post; all answers and advice greatly appreciated.

[08hyper]

Originally Posted by dukepilot

A 44 or 45 sprocket works well but you will need a longer chain. Get a good quality x or xw ring chain. You can't go wrong with a DID or RK chain. Whether to go with a 520 or 525 is a matter of weight savings and possibly shorter chain life with the 520. I like the supersprox because of the steel chain ring. Aluminum sprockets will generally wear faster than steel. While your at it, get a new c/s sprocket to go with your new chain and rear sprocket. You could use the old sprocket but a new one is relatively inexpensive.

+1 on what Peter said, the 520 chain kit is more of a lightweight performance option so if your looking to do track days this might be the way to go, but it does have its downside, in wearing chain & sprockets faster, and if you don't keep a good eye on it, it can "snap" especially on a torquey V-twin, so if doing a 520 kit get the best chain you can afford, as I have been told that our bikes are harder on the chain than a 1000cc sportbikes, its the torque that does it, not the RPM's.
I would go with a 44t rear sprocket for all around riding, and maybe a 45t for really tight tracks, or if you really like 4th gear wheelies. Aloha Alex

[GMP]

Don't trash the 14t countershaft idea so fast. Many here including myself have done it and it works great. I have 7500 miles and have only adjusted the chain a three times, so there is no excessive wear due to this. When the time comes to replace everything I'll just get 45t 525 sprocket with a quick change carrier, new chain and use my like new OEM 15t. For less than $40 you can't go wrong even if its just to see if you like the 1:3 ratio (14:42 = 15:45).

The bike is much more at home in all around riding geared like this. I think the OEM gearing is primarily to keep the revs down for noise emmision standards.

[dave2riff]

I'd agree-- skip the 520 if you're not trying to be racy... that's a minimal
chain size for 70 ft.-lbs of torque.

I would change the front sprocket if it is worn and you are replacing the
chain. "Worn" would be something over 2k miles. Get the best chain you
can-- the RK brand X-W ring chain is very good as is the high-end DID x-ring
chain. A good o-ringed chain will hold it's lube better and stretch less
quickly than a cheap chain. "X" rings are just low drag o-rings with a
special shape developed to reduce chain friction and retain grease.
Most of the time x-rings are combined with better quality, higher tensile
strength hard parts to create a longer lasting, though more expensive chain.
The stock chain for this bike is a medium-grade DID o-ring type with 104 links.

For ratios, this is up to personal taste. Look at www.gearingcommander.com.
They have a gearing calculator with the ability to make changes and the
Hyper model data already loaded. I like to think in terms of percent change
with gearing, since when you know the percent change you can figure the
rpm change in any gear that will occur when your change a gear ratio.
On the Hyper, with 15/42 stock final drive gearing, a 44 tooth rear gives
you 4.7% lower overall ratio, so your rpm at a given speed in a given gear
increase by 4.7%. Not a huge change, but noticeable. The 45T rear will
net you a 7% lower final drive, and of course, 7% higher rpm in any gear
for a given speed. I went with the 7% lower 45T gear and it works great;
to be honest I think I could go even lower to about 10% reduction. I like
the extra punch and the reduced need to slip the clutch in very slow situations
like parking lots.

The bike will still feel like a Hypermotard... just a little better matched to
tighter roads instead of superhighways. That said, 6th gear is still in a good
sweet spot for 70-75 mph cruising on the highway... it's only a 300 rpm
increase with the 45 tooth rear!

[Da_Bull]

+1 on what Peter said.

However, keep in mind that 525 pitch isn't an industry standard ... just a Ducati standard (Harley is 530, I believe). What I'm getting at is that you'll be hard pressed to find 525 stuff if you're ever in a pinch whereas 520 hardware grows on every motorcycle parts tree. That's what prompted me to go 520 ... weight was never an issue.

Personally, I think going to a 44t rear was a great upgrade with the 15t front sprocket. I used the Supersprox ring because it was given to me ... I coupled it with a DID chain and AFAM lightweight front sprocket. The bike is more lively around town and is an absolute stormer up to about 100mph ... above that on a Hyper is a waste anyway, IMHO.

I would say 15/44 is a great combo for a city/canyon bike, but a bad idea if you plan to do a lot of touring (gets a bit buzzy on the freeway for extended periods of time).

[Jaydash]

Thanks for the replies so far. Just to clarify a few things in respect of the 520, I'm never going to go racing and rarely go on the motorway/ over 80 mph. Reading the thread, I was put off the 520 option until someone said about them being ubiquitous. That said, I'm never going touring either, so being stuck without a chain isn't an issue, and am doing up to 2000 miles a year, so I don't think wear is either (no-one has given an idea how much quicker it will wear).

Ultimately, I guess because of the torque I should stick with the standard 525? ...unless someone tells me the bike picks up better, is much better at low speeds etc with 520. Someone hinted at that by saying it's more lively around town, but not sure how much of that is the 44 and how much is the 520/ AFAM.

Regards the front sprocket, mine is effectively new and has less than 100 miles, so I gather it's not worth changing? I will go for the AFAM front option if it's better for some reason, but seeing as I'm probably not changing to 520 (undecided), is it worth going for a lighter c/s? I honestly don't mind spending the money if there is a benefit.

Lastly, still got to decide between 44 and 45, but I gather both will improve things for my low speed town riding - not sure how I'm going to decide, as at low revs the difference will probably be small. No-one seems unhappy with 44 from what I can gather, but I guess the same can be said of 45? (I don't want the 4th gear wheelies though Alex!) Both have been recommended here, so I guess I will have to work out the differences on paper, then ride around paying attention to rev counter, imagining an extra 100/ 150 revs at any point to see what suits. It's all very close though, isn't it, so not sure if that will work.

I just need to make a decision, and soon (it took me a year of dithering to actually buy the bike!) By all means please post again if you can help me decide. I wouldn't be worrying if it wasn't going to cost £200/300, I would just try 44 and see.

I think I shall buy the Supersprox rear and 106 link RK chain unless anyone advises against it.

[BigJoe]

Greetings and welcome!!!

I had the dealer replace the 15T CS sprocket with a 14T CS sprocket before I took delivery of the bike.

I gear every bike that I own (5) to suit my needs, so from my point of view, you are walking the right path. Also, I am with GMP on the 14T option, low cost, and no real issues, given your anticipated use.

I also run a lightweight flywheel, lightweight clutch (thanks Marco!) & a full Termi kit as well and I have had no chain issues at all in the 2200 miles accumulated so far (08 Hyper S).

I do plan on switching to a larger rear sprocket CS sprocket and chain when the existing set up has worn a bit more.

The benefit to the 14T CS sprocket is that you may wish to go further (on a gearing reduction scale) and for short money, you can evaluate the 14T ratio to see if the gearing ratio reduction is appropriate for your use.

My opinion is that there are so many great things to do and or add to the hyper that cost will ultimately drive your course of mods, so why not start with a low cost, minimal downside option before moving on to the next item on your list, and if you don't have a list of things to do to the hyper, you soon will!

Best regards,

Joe

[Da_Bull]

In an apples to apples comparison you will never notice the difference between a similarly geared bike with a 520 or 525 chain setup. The weight difference is negligible.