Runs great at 160-190 temp but runs like a pig at 220 or above? - Ducati.ms

hyperichie · Jun 22nd, 2009, 5:07 pm

Well I got the dual termi slip on with zard header, DP ecu, airbox, and it runs like a terd when it reachs 210 and above? Its still rideable but I swear I notice a 10 - 20 hp loss when it reachs 220 or above.. Smells rich and I think it is running rich.. I had my dealer setup the idle and the o2 levels or whatever and he prob adjusted everything at 180 degrees not letting the bike ge to full optimum running temp..
Whats ur take on this??
Thanks
Rich

Shazaam · Jun 22nd, 2009, 5:40 pm

You've got a well-calibrated seat-of-the-pants dyno.

Most stock-engined sportbikes are designed to produce their best power when coolant temperatures are close to to their design operating condition, usually mid-scale on the bike’s temperature gauge

The optimum temperature for the best performance will depend on how the engine management system is set up for fueling and timing vs. temperature as well as a number of other bike-specific factors.

Ducati fuel injected motorcycles use engine management computers incorporating a coolant temperature sensor to retard the engine ignition timing to compensate for any increase in octane requirement when operating temperatures increase. Retard the timing and you reduce power.

Duane Mitchel reported that he ran a series of tests to establish optimum running temp for a Ducati race bike and found that (185ºF) 85ºC is perfect. Over that temperature, he found that it lost horsepower fairly quickly (down about 15 HP at (212ºF) 100ºC and below that temperature the same result (down about 6 HP at 65ºC.)

dave2riff · Jun 22nd, 2009, 6:47 pm

On some bikes, and some throttle positions, the DP ECU's are overly rich.
And as the temp goes up, the mixture needs to be leaner, not richer, so there's
a double-whammy there, although some correction is applied by the Hyper's
use of a temp and pressure sensor.

As Shazaam noted, HP does drop off somewhat at above optimum temp,
but from the Dynojet maps I've seen for DP ECUs, there are lots of large
negative corrections in there (at part throttle especially) to optimize the
fuel mixture. See attached Power Commander fuel map for the DP Race ECU.

**Da_Bull** · Jun 22nd, 2009, 6:50 pm

Shazaam, our bikes don't have a coolant temp sensor because, well, they have no coolant.

I noticed the same running issue on my bike, too. I suspect that the increased head temp is causing fuel atomization issues in the combustion chamber. By richening up my mixture we were able to reduce temps and restore some of the ridability. The flip side is that I am knowingly giving up peak power due to a rich mixture...however, I believe it was a worthwhile tradeoff.

hyperichie · Jun 22nd, 2009, 7:14 pm

AHHAHA I do have a pretty good butt dyno since I have had like 8 bikes and been riding for over 12 years now..

So yea thats why I do not wanna say it but DUCATI's suck!! lol...
So hard to tune, and not that impressive at all.. But I still like it and will continue riding it.. I just want this overly rich motor to run right at its NORMAL operating temp.. which is 220....
is the only fix a power comander?
thanks for all the help..
DAVE thanks for the map.. that will be handy if I go that route..

dave2riff · Jun 22nd, 2009, 8:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyperichie

So hard to tune, and not that impressive at all.. But I still like it and will continue riding it.. I just want this overly rich motor to run right at its NORMAL operating temp.. which is 220....
is the only fix a power comander?
thanks for all the help..
DAVE thanks for the map.. that will be handy if I go that route..

BTW, that map is just a partial screen shot of one cylinder... you can down-
load full maps from the Dynojet website. The very best results with a PC III
are obtained by having a pro dyno tune, but the sample maps are very good.

But the bike shouldn't "run like a terd" as you say, in any case. The engine
should still feel strong at elevated temps (220-240F). If you're getting a
sudden drop-off, there may be some other issue.

With an air-cooled engine, there is a large range of 'normal' operating temps,
depending on the ambient air temp and how much of it is flowing by. But
you're right, 220 F oil temp is still in the normal range for the Hyper and it
should run well there (mine does).

hyperichie · Jun 22nd, 2009, 8:58 pm

It still runs good and its has power but its enough to notice. Bike is fine and runs great just the power diff at 220 is strange. I have owned 1 cylinder to 4cylinders and usually the hotter they get the faster they run. I am thinking the dealer needs to setup the fuel levels again.. Its hard to find a good tech and I do not have the tool to do this or I would myself.

motopix · Jun 22nd, 2009, 11:39 pm

I have the VDST software and am near GMU in FFX. I've not done the tuning myself yet on my bike (stock ECU) but have hooked it up and poked around: looks straightforward enough.

Let me know if you want me to come to your place some time and we can figure it out.

GMP · Jun 23rd, 2009, 7:44 am

Trim level has very little to do with high demand portions of the fuel map, its a small fixed pulse width adjustment that effects idle and cruise conditions (low demand). You might have another problem if power falls off so noticably. From what I can tell tuning mine and what I hear from others is the motors run best a hair on the rich side. Do you have the slip on ECU? I could see it being way rich with the cam kit ECU and stock cams.

hyperichie · Jun 24th, 2009, 10:50 pm

MOTO PIX - that sounds good I would love to atleast be able to raise my idle just a hair.. U can do that with the VDST right? I work in tysons and know awesome rodes out near my area. Hit me back

GMP - Are u saying we can not mess with the fuel with the VDST? And its not a huge drop off and today when I rode it she ran good and felt awesome but it will wheelie a lot easier at 150 -180 degrees than it will 210 +

thx
rich