Hot weather idling issue. - Ducati.ms

dhc8guru · Jun 15th, 2009, 2:09 pm

Now that the weather is hot, I have run into a problem with the starting on the HM. The engine starts up fine and will run for about 30 seconds at about 1200 rpm, then it will quit. When I restart it, it usually will quit again after 30 seconds of idling. Usually after the third start, it will keep itself idling fine. I have tried holding the throttle open for the thirty second period, tried reving it up etc. but chances are it will quit running until I start riding it. After a few minutes of riding, the idle stabilizes and its not a problem. The first start of the morning it doesn't have this issue.
I know sometimes things like this are the norm, but figured I would check with you guys before I start squawking at the dealer. I have owned and ridden plenty of other fuel injected bikes and none of them had this issue.

I am thinking the fumes from the fuel tank vent going into the carbon cannister when it sits in the heat is getting sucked into the engine at start up making the mixture to rich and causing the issue. Oh yea, my HM is all stock.

Suigeneris · Jun 15th, 2009, 3:31 pm

Sadly, theres about 250 other threads here about the same problem, myself included. Seems all of our dealers have a problem setting the idle correctly while others will chime in that it is our own fault for replacing the exhaust and ECU. I am the type of bastard that calls his service dept. once a week and gives them a hard time about this. They always act shocked? Big suprise there. It seems to be like every twin I've ever owned actually. Anyways, heres someone else to tell you how to blip the throttle smooth and not jerk it. Or is that the rifle range?vvvv

dhc8guru · Jun 15th, 2009, 4:12 pm

Yea, I have read the 250 threads...nothing seemed conclusive. In the cold weather I had no problems. That was what lead me to believe the charcoal canister was filling up with evap fumes from the tank (due to the heat) and then sucking them into the engine on start-up.

My 2007 Harley Sportster rarely would die after start up. Only if it died after the first start, on the second start the ECU would kick the throttle up to about 2000 rpm for about 30 seconds to keep it from cutting out. When Harley first Fuel injected the Sportster, they said it took them a year to get the ECU setup properly for even running. They did a great job.

All these aircooled engine bike manufactures are having issues with keeping the emmisions under control and also keeping the bikes running acceptable.

Funny though, I rode a Monster 1100...it was 10 times smoother, no jerky throttle and it started like a champ.....Now I know why they dumped the Marrelli F.I. and went to the Seimens system.

webspoke · Jun 15th, 2009, 4:20 pm

Mine does the same thing too, even with no evap canister hooked up. I did try raising the idle speed slightly, and playing with the air bleeds, but it still happens some. it was much less frequent when I ran with a gutted cat and cored pipes, once I put the cat back on (this is with the stock ecu) it started stalling again.

dhc8guru · Jun 15th, 2009, 7:11 pm

Well I just got done checking the TPS and setting the idle. The TPS was at 2.8 and the idle was at 1250 so I bumped it up to 1300 and reset the TPS.
I don't believe this will solve my issue but they were two things that were definitely off.
I took it for a ride and did find that coming off the throttle and rolling to a stop, it held the idle up until I came to a full stop and then it idled down to 1300 rpm. It reminded me that it use to do that when it was new but I guess it disappeared somewhere along the line and I never realized it.
I do need to get a mercury balancer so I can do a proper idle set and balance.

heffergm · Jun 15th, 2009, 7:37 pm

I haven't (knock on wood) experienced this issue, but if there's some concern that it's a lean condition in closed loop, a simple solution might be a FatDuc O2 manipulator.

Although mine was lean (the same as they all are) I wasn't having any stalling issues (with or without the charcoal canister. Note that I pulled mine off and just ran one of the lines between the throttle bodies rather than try and vacuum plug them individually). But with the fatduc at 13.5/1, it's a real peach to ride at part throttle now, regardless of the gear.

dragoontwo · Jun 15th, 2009, 7:39 pm

I also believe it's an issue of being too lean and not rich at idle. in the winter I noticed my red glowing pipes at idle, and since try not to idle too much. I usually restart after it dies, and it's okay after that.

HyperMotard21 · Jun 16th, 2009, 1:26 am

I live in a hot and humid climate all year round 26C-38C with humidity 35-75%
Could it be the diff in altitude for those comparing within the US?

I've never had such problems when with stock setup, now I have Zard Penta slipons, removed CAT and DP Racing ECU, DP airbox cover. No problems either.

dhc8guru · Jun 16th, 2009, 10:14 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragoontwo

I also believe it's an issue of being too lean and not rich at idle. in the winter I noticed my red glowing pipes at idle, and since try not to idle too much. I usually restart after it dies, and it's okay after that.

Is the cat glowing red also? if so that is an excessive rich mixture.

I do have a fat duc O2, I took it off till I could sort out my current idling problem. I am still working out how to set the fat duc up. I don't quite understand how the "silver dot" is full rich and full clockwise is also full rich and full counter clockwise is full lean.

Riding into work today after resetting things up, the engine ran better than it ever has, no popping, surging or jerky throttle response. I am crossing my fingers that when I leave work today, it starts and idles like it did this morning.

dave2riff · Jun 16th, 2009, 5:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhc8guru

I do have a fat duc O2, I took it off till I could sort out my current idling problem. I am still working out how to set the fat duc up. I don't quite understand how the "silver dot" is full rich and full clockwise is also full rich and full counter clockwise is full lean.

The silver dot should match the full clockwise position: the arrow built
into the white/rotating portion of the trimmer should point at the silver
dot when fully clockwise. In general, the silver dot can be ignored as it
is superfluous, but it can be used as a reminder of which way to turn for
richer Vs. leaner settings.