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Front End push/slide

3K views 8 replies 8 participants last post by  08hyper 
#1 ·
So I took the Tard out today for it's first real run at GMR in LA today in prep for running Palomar this summer and everytime I got leaned over to drag knee/pegs the front end would push.



Comming from sportbikes 900RR, 929RR, 1000RR, I would expect some push depending on the tires (SC-III's stuck, Metzlers slide etc) and knowing that beforehand really help with confidence entering and exiting a corner.



What I need to know from you experts and track guys is- what's causing it? Do the BT014's normally slide then grip? Suspension (stock setup atm, would really love someone's track setup 180 lbs that I can use as a startig point), or is it that I'm just not used to it and the tard riding style has more weight over the front tire then a sportbike causing the push?



Any help would be appreciated, THX!
 
#2 ·
Not an expert and I'm not running BT014's, but I find the bike pushes more
when there is _less_ weight on the front. For instance, it will push a bit
when you're picking up the throttle on corner exit as weight transfers rearward.
This is a fun track bike, but I think it is more difficult to get your body weight
forward than on a conventional sportbike. That said, there were two pro
supermoto guys out at Infineon today that were seriously quick even in the "A"
group on Aprilia SXV550's. It was kinda funny seeing these guys run with R1's
and 1098's! So I don't have a good answer for you but I think with the long,
high bars on the Hypermotard it takes a motard style to get the front tire
weighted and sticking... to me it feels awkward at first to get that chin out
there past the bar end on these bikes... it seems to me there is less emphasis
on knee dragging and more on just managing the upper torso to keep the front
weighted. If anyone else has any inputs, I'm all ears!
 
#3 ·
I'm not really sure what dave2riff is talking about, but...

In my experience, a lot of Hyper owners have front end problems if their spring preload is too soft. The front end dives too much, increasing the steering angle quite a bit, which causes the front tire to want to tuck.

I cranked up my preload, raised the front end 5mm (by dropping the forks in the clamps), and I've had no problems with the front tire tucking. This is on my S model with SC III's. Maybe the BT014's suck, I don't know.

But anyway, dragging knee isn't difficult (see my avatar pic), and motard-style really isn't the hot ticket on the Hyper...
 
#7 ·
I'm not really sure what dave2riff is talking about, but...

In my experience, a lot of Hyper owners have front end problems if their spring preload is too soft. The front end dives too much, increasing the steering angle quite a bit, which causes the front tire to want to tuck.
You don't know what dave2riff is talking about? He has a very good point, as well as your suspension point. But this guy is new to the Hyper and may be riding sitting up straight going into corners with out moving his wieght forward lower and to the inside (more sport bike position in corners)which also to me helps greatly on the Hyper...you have to make sure you have proper body position or suspension tweaks aren't going to work either. Last you were saying tuck...a tuck to me has alway meant more of a knifing... like the suspension blows through its stroke then turns in to tight , making the front knife/tuck... this guys says his front is pushing... That could also mean its to stiff and not letting the bike settle in.
Bottom line not ever seeing the guy ride is I would suggest the guy get basic suspension set up then try the simplest approach first which I think is how is he riding the bike... getting sportbike oriented position for corners on the Hyper, then start to tweak suspension after he doesn't see improvement.
 
#4 ·
If you have an adjustable rear ride height rod, try extending or lowering it a touch. Which is the correct direction depends on whether the push occurs on entry or exit. Suspension adjustments are a mix of art and science, but everything you do must be based on proper sag. Get that as close as you can before messing with any other adjustments.

A forum search on suspension will open a whole can of worms for you to play with.
 
#5 ·
I think the best place (on MS) to get a straight answer would be to post the question here:
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=14864&page=28

IMHO, front end push is almost always the result of an improperly set up front suspension, which is common with the Hyper due to the lack of full adjustability of the forks.

Haven't played with my front much, so I do not have a good idea on the best way to proceed, but hope the info helps.
 
#6 ·
Traxxion Dynamics is one of many suspension guru's. Max offers this guide to understanding geometry and suspension.



He claims that quite often, entry and exit problems are most often cured with adjustments at the oposite end.

While YMMV and other resources may disagree, this guide has been helpful in sorting several setup issues for me.
 
#8 ·
Same thing happened with my standard model at my first trackday. When I bought it I requested and adj. ride height link be installed. With the help of a man who knows a thing or two concerning such the rear was jacked up in stages with dramatic results for the better. That and some more compression damping for the shock did the trick.
With so many variables concerned you're results may vary but on that day with my bike it's what the doctor ordered.
 
#9 ·
Stick it

I have done many Track-days with my Hyper, and have found that the bike is

sensitive to suspension/geometry changes, but for your front end push, I would

raise the rear a little, with the adjuster (S model only) and maybe raise the tubes

in the thriple clamps just a little, to lower the front, this will give more bite/weight

on the front wheel, just do small adjustments, and only one at a time.

Once set-up correctly, you'll find that the Hyper front is well planted, and will stick

like glue. Hope this helps, Alex
 
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