What's wrong with this

[krill]

So far

1 Cored standard pipes
2 Cored cat
3 Disabled exhaust valve
4 Fitted o2 manipulator

Everything else standard, I now have a bike that sounds great, doesn't pop or bang on the over run, no noticeable loss of power and doesn't appear to overheat which is what I was aiming for but could I be doing any damage in the long run ??? I'm not interested in improving performance so don't want the expense of new cans and electronics, after throwing loads of money at a couple of Harley's I realised it's much cheaper if you want to go faster buy a faster bike.

[duncanmiller]

Hi Krill,
I think because of what you have done to your bike your engine will be running very weak because of the considerably less back pressure your exhaust now has. The answer would be either to fit one of the DP ecu's that come with the full termi system or with the cam kits, or your best answer would be to have a Dynojet Power Commander ( or similar type of fuel injection modifier ) fitted to your bike and set up by a competent dyno operator. I know this is fairly expensive in the uk we would be looking at approx £400 maybe a bit cheaper for you if you are in USA as you get the power commanders cheaper than us. Maybe not what you wanted to hear but this is a lot cheaper than the damage you could suffer running your engine on a weak mixture.
Regards,
Duncan.

[kingsnake1650]

I have done everything on you list except #3. (Plus I have the cyclewerks tank with the pod filters) If you dissable the flapper without a DP ecu you will throw the CPU off and at the very least get the dreaded red wrench light.
My bike runs great, and the cored stock exhaust sounds awesome

[krill]

Originally Posted by kingsnake1650

I have done everything on you list except #3. (Plus I have the cyclewerks tank with the pod filters) If you dissable the flapper without a DP ecu you will throw the CPU off and at the very least get the dreaded red wrench light.
My bike runs great, and the cored stock exhaust sounds awesome

I replaced the cable pulley with a short piece of aluminium as per thread so the bike still thinks it's working, no problem, I'm wondering if this thing about the bike running too lean is a rumour put about by the people trying to sell after market spares at ridiculous prices, after an hours hard riding there is no sign of the exhaust header glowing, the oil temp is 82, surely if it was that weak I would have over heating problems????, I have always opened up the exhaust on Jap bikes with no problem, is this post turning into a conspiracy theory !!!!!!!

[duncanmiller]

Hi Krill,
Don't take me word for it just get your fuelling checked on a dyno, i'll be amazed if it is not running weak, my own Hyper was still running weak with Dp cam ecu after using Leo vince cat eliminator & silencers and doing air box mods and that ecu is supposed to increase mixture richness by 20% Hey I've got nowt to gain by telling you this I don't work in the bike industry, just trying to save you potentially expensive engine damage.
Regards,
Duncan.

[hypersmith]

Added question...? Doesn't the O2 manipulator Richen the mixture? I thought that was the benefit of using it... NO?
Right now, I'm running gutted cans, cat and that's it. Flapper valve is intact, I am going to add a Fat Duc O2 manipulator very soon...
Hang in there... we'll get the answers...

[dave2riff]

Originally Posted by hypersmith

Added question...? Doesn't the O2 manipulator Richen the mixture? I thought that was the benefit of using it... NO?
Right now, I'm running gutted cans, cat and that's it. Flapper valve is intact, I am going to add a Fat Duc O2 manipulator very soon...
Hang in there... we'll get the answers...

Yes, the FatDuc richens the mixture and is adjustable to some extent. Check
out their Website and other threads on this forum. I have one and it works
well. It only applies to closed-loop mode, which is roughly below 25% throttle
or <4500 rpm. From what I've seen, this is the leanest area on the stock HM,
because of Euro 3 smog requirements being tested in that region. The stock
Hyper, at near idle, commonly has stalling issues related to the overly lean
closed-loop settings. Operating temps can be reduced slightly by richening
this mixture, another benefit of using an O2 sensor manipulator.

Also, the exhaust flapper valve is installed to pass Euro 3 drive-by noise
requirements. It is NOT programmed (like some other EXUP valves) to
control back pressure and boost torque at lower rpms, so it is essentially
without value on this bike (unless you need it quieter in the 3000-4000 rpm
range!). If you leave the seat off and watch the EXV control pulley
while on a dyno, you can observe the simple programming for this noise
reduction device. Since the DS1100 engine does not suffer from a soft
low end torque curve (unlike higher-revving inline fours in many sportbikes),
it probably would not benefit much, if any, from a true back-pressure control
valve. Building serious torque at low rpm is the strength of this engine!

To avoid "Check Engine" light issues with the stock ECU when disabling the
exhaust valve, you will need some type of mechanical travel limiter on the
exhaust valve servo or cables, as detailed in other threads on this forum.
If you're mechanically adept, you can accomplish this in a number of ways.
I removed the cables when I installed a Zard system and tapped the servo
pulley (it's aluminum) with two 4mm bolts projecting radially from opposite
sides of the pulley. These form "stops" that prevent the pulley from over-
travel when the ECU is doing it's power-up test sequence.

[AXE]

I doubt you are gonna damage it with that setup. You can check out some dyno tests posted by Motovation for some info on some basic mods.

You have done a lot of work and effectively have created something similar to a full aftermarket exhaust system. You could buy a DP ECU for around $300-350 from eBay. Then drill out your stock air box lid, remove the entire flapper valve assembly, and the bike will run reliably strong and fueling will be pretty solid. Then, you can sell the Fat Duc and recoup some $ and net out for $200+.

A Power Commander is gonna run you $275 and a dyno tune will be another $200+. Unless you really want to have the fueling totally custom, it is an expense that isn't necessary. It did allow mine to run a little stonger, but my fuel mileage went way down.

Out!

[hypersmith]

Thanks dave2riff!!! Sooo... in your opinion, would a hyper be running too lean with gutted cans and cat/stock ECU... with a fat duc installed?
thanks

[dave2riff]

Originally Posted by hypersmith

Thanks dave2riff!!! Sooo... in your opinion, would a hyper be running too lean with gutted cans and cat/stock ECU... with a fat duc installed?
thanks

Well my opinion is only worth about 3 cents these days, but no, with the
FatDuc, and those mods you won't have a risk of running severely lean and
causing a, uh, "warranty failure". Keep in mind that part-throttle lean
conditions tend to cause a poor running engine, not necessarily any type
of damage (other than non-optimum oil temps over the long haul). It is
severe leanness at wide-open throttle that generally is a factor in burnt
valves, piston seizure, severe detonation, etc. For this reason, the factory
programming for ECU's at and approaching full throttle is commonly on the
far rich side (and this includes DP ECU's). It just makes sense to be
conservative (and to err on the rich side) for fuel maps intended for wide
distribution to entire production runs (as opposed to a custom fuel map for
a specific bike). Engine failure during the warranty period will quickly eat
the entire profit on that motorcycle sale, so manufacturers are very
interested in protecting the health of the motor whenever possible.

You should be fine, but for guys doing lots of mods, there's no substitute
for access to higher level tuning equipment that will verify things like exhaust
temp and CO %. Not that every rider needs to be a tuning geek, but, it
is not necessarily a bad thing to proceed with caution when trying to
squeeze more juice out of any modern EFI motor... if nothing else to get
your money's worth out of changes made.