Trim setting baseline for DP 2-1 ECU - Ducati.ms

MotoDuc · Mar 1st, 2009, 9:38 am

I just recently picked up the 708B ECU that comes with the 2 into 1 termi race kit to go along with the SC Project exhaust and Leo Vince cat eliminator I just ordered. I've been reading though numerous posts trying to determine what a good baseline fuel trim setting will be since I will be bringing it to my dealer for TPS reset and trim setting. I do not have the VDST tool needed to change it myself so I would like to get close on my first shot.

For those of you who've either installed the Termi race exhaust and DP ECU or just used the ECU for another exhaust as I am what settings would you advise? From the threads I've read it seems like people are covering a large range from +5 to +15 on the fuel trim setting. A lot of people seem to come back down from the high setting if they don't mind playing a little, and seem to settle at +5 or +6. I was planning on starting at +5 and going from there. Any advice is appreciated.

FYI - I've already modded the airbox lid and installed a K&N filter using just the stock exhaust and a FATDUC O2 manipulator.

GMP · Mar 1st, 2009, 10:08 am

I have to get mine checked on an analyzer this spring but right now its set by the butt dyno and how it sounds and responds. I'm at +12 with full LV system, K&N, open lid and its perfect. Plugs are tan. Same setup with stock cans I ran trim at +6 with good results. If your having a shop do it they will set to a CO reading and not care what you tell them. A new ECU from the box will usually be defaulted to 0 trim. Still fine to ride to the dealer, remember trim is just a bias that affects low fuel demand more.

I would recommend getting the VDST.

**BillyD** · Mar 1st, 2009, 10:55 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMP

I would recommend getting the VDST.

My high school auto shop teacher said, "If you need a tool and don't buy it, you pay for it anyway."

Don't forget to also synch the throttle bodies as well as the TPS reset and fuel trim.

I started at +15, but then backed it down to +5 after getting an exhaust gas analyzer and not liking the fuel mileage at +15. I also cracked the idle speed screw open a bit more (i.e., 1/16th of a turn) and found it helped the snatchy throttle although most don't have to do this.

Thinking the dealer is going to get it "right" in one shot is wishful thinking. There is no substitute for "tweak, ride, repeat" even with FI.

BendEuroMoto · Mar 1st, 2009, 11:00 am

The numbers on the trim scale do not matter much and vary between bikes with the same ECU, pipes, ect. The only way to set the idle mixture is with a gas analyzer. The belt tension should be checked first,then the TPS reset then the trim, then the throttle body sync, and then the trim again.
If your dealer does not think these steps are important, or does not have an EGA, get a new dealer.
If you do not think this is important, good luck.

MotoDuc · Mar 1st, 2009, 2:42 pm

I'm definitely one for riding and adjusting. When I installed the fatduc manipulator it took me a week of riding, tuning, plug checks, idle air screw adjsuting to get it just right.

I plan to do this when I get the exhaust and ECU on as well, but wanted to ask those who've already gone down this road for some advice from thier experience. As for my dealer, he's very good to work with and doesn't mind me working with him in the shop. THe owner is a racer and appreciates others who take pride in more than just how they look on a ducati.

I would also like to buy the VDST, but it was already tough enough to convince the wife on buying the exhaust and ECU.

jpgibson · Mar 1st, 2009, 6:00 pm

I've recently been through this...
I have same ECU, LV cat elim and cans ( and recently installed BMC air filter).
I bought the VDST.
Started at +10. Way too rich. NB soot at pipes, colour of plugs little-no use in these days of unleaded fuel.
In the end I was at a trim of '0'. ie just how it came from the factory ( which yours might not be if its second hand).
I had mine on a dyno and its running perfectly ( with regard AFR)- even still a bit rich up top ( this was before the airfilter).
The trouble seems to be that they vary a bit ( the bikes and appropriate settings that is.)
The only real way is on the dyno- but having said that , mine was spot on just by the seat of pants dyno.

MotoDuc · Mar 2nd, 2009, 8:31 am

I'm thinking I'll just give in and order the VDST. In the end I probably will save myself time, money and hassle just by being able to clear the service light, nevermind being able to tweak the trim on my own without having to make a 1/2 hour drive over to my dealer for further tuning.

The ECU I got is from another member on here from Italy. He upgraded to the DP cam kit and sold me the ECU since he no longer needed it. I guess I should ask him what he had set for the fuel trim if that remains stored in the ECU even after being installed in another bike. If that info is retained, I'm guess the TPS should have been reset and will likely be ready to go if I were to just plug it into my bike.

GMP · Mar 2nd, 2009, 11:41 am

With the VDST, you can see the actual injector pulse width, with either OEM or race ECU. I set the bike up on a stand with a fan and let it stabilize to temp, and got a baseline average pulse width with the OEM ECU in closed loop mode. Installed the race ECU, set TPS, and let the bike again stabilize. Matcing pulse widths using the trim yeilded a 0 to +3 trim on my bike. Theoreticlly this should be 14.7:1 AFR. A target 13.2:1 AFR would be approx 11% more fuel, and a corresponding 11% increase in pulse width. This brought trim to +6 or so with the stock cans, open lid, and LV cat eliminator. The bike ran awesome. After I added the LV system and K&N, the bike still ran OK but adding a bit more fuel to +12 trim really smoothed it out. Any more than that, and milage took too much of a dive. The cans on my bike are clean with no soot, no rich smell, and decent milage. Every bike is different and when comparing bikes in different countries there are huge variables with fuel and conditions. The OEM closed loop system accounts for this at idle and cruise, so if you know the pulse width, which will be different for different bikes, you have a baseline to start from and make an educated guess at where to set trim without a CO analyzer.

MotoDuc · Mar 2nd, 2009, 11:52 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMP

With the VDST, you can see the actual injector pulse width, with either OEM or race ECU. I set the bike up on a stand with a fan and let it stabilize to temp, and got a baseline average pulse width with the OEM ECU in closed loop mode. Installed the race ECU, set TPS, and let the bike again stabilize. Matcing pulse widths using the trim yeilded a 0 to +3 trim on my bike. Theoreticlly this should be 14.7:1 AFR. A target 13.2:1 AFR would be approx 11% more fuel, and a corresponding 11% increase in pulse width. This brought trim to +6 or so with the stock cans, open lid, and LV cat eliminator. The bike ran awesome. After I added the LV system and K&N, the bike still ran OK but adding a bit more fuel to +12 trim really smoothed it out. Any more than that, and milage took too much of a dive. The cans on my bike are clean with no soot, no rich smell, and decent milage. Every bike is different and when comparing bikes in different countries there are huge variables with fuel and conditions. The OEM closed loop system accounts for this at idle and cruise, so if you know the pulse width, which will be different for different bikes, you have a baseline to start from and make an educated guess at where to set trim without a CO analyzer.

Thanks I'll plan on tryign that same approach. Makes sense and better than going by just the butt Dyno!

GMP · Mar 2nd, 2009, 4:01 pm

This only works if conditions are the same (you do it the same day) and the bike temp is kept stable. I use a big fan to keep the motor at about 200 deg.

The ultimate adjustment is by how it feels, but this is better than guessing if you do not have an analyzer. I'd like to see what my CO/AFR really is but not neccessarily change settings to meet a magic number, it runs great.