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BST Wheels vs Motor Work

3K views 31 replies 24 participants last post by  08hyper 
#1 ·
Hey,

I've just been thinking lately, which would be a better investment for my Hyper. BST wheels are about $3500. New cams, porting, hi-comp pistons and labour would probably be a little less but in the same ball park.

Which do you think would be a better use of the money? Right now, I'm leaning towards the wheels for several reasons. First, they'll help with handling as well as give me the feeling of more of power. They'll also be transferable to another bike, or at least I'd be able to sell them when I decide to sell my Hyper. Motor work, on the other hand, is something that you can't really swap out. Finally, the wheels shouldn't do anything to decrease the reliability of the bike. Is there something I'm missing in this comparision?
 
#3 ·
The wheels will give you more of the "look at what he has" factor and the motor work is invisible but for a real world performance upgrade the motor work will give you more bang for your buck. The stock wheels are light enough that odds are you wont feel much difference in the way of handling or useable power.
Basically if you want it to look better when parked in front of the bar then go for the wheels. If you want it to charge harder out of corners get the motor work.
 
#4 ·
Hard choice but I would say wheels. IMHO the wheels will give you better handling, looks and as you stated you can either sell them or use them on another duc (choices are limited). It also depends on how & where you ride but with an S the they are about 3lbs lighter.
 
#6 ·
I have learned the hard way that wheels are the better mod, and that is the first serious mod that I do to any bike.

My SS has basically the same motor, and I had looked into doing the motor. But after putting on a set of BSTs, I am only planning to do any motor work when it's time for a rebuild.

Wheels improve handling, braking, and acceleration. Motor, only acceleration.

Considering this, it's a no brainer.

Tom
 
#8 ·
+1! Acceleration, handling and braking: the holy grail of all motorsports! I have BSTs on my track bike, and pound for pound lighter wheels are the best mod you can do to any bike. And they compliment suspension and braking mods too!
 
#7 ·
I would do a little of both. For less than $300 you can upgrade your air filter, add a hole to your air box lid (like DP lid), and get rid of the cat (Leo Vince) and still run the stock ECU. This will give you some more power and better sound. Then, you can do the wheels and get the benefits of that. Either way, you will suffer more depreciation than you care to think about.

Stocks are definitely a good investment now if you pick the right ones and trust the crooked bankers and hedge funds on Wall Street. However, the best investment I have is my guns...................its the only thing I have that hasn't lost 50% of its value in the last 24 months. In fact, they have increased considerably in value since the Obama factor kicked in...........I love America! I am thinking of adding a turret to my Hyper..........maybe a .50 cal with a windshield!

Out!
 
#9 ·
New wheels are nice but pretty expensive. For improved handling a lighter flywheel is a very good mod. Easier turn-in and zippier engine performance.
 
#10 ·
No question. Wheels.

I would bet that that guys that describe the wheels as "nice", or "look at what he has", etc...have never owned a set. The $3500 in engine work won't help turn in or braking, just power. You get much more benefit from the wheels.
 
#13 ·
Do you have a standard or S model. If you have a S the wheels are already forged alloys. Yes you could go lighter and get BST, but as you say they're around $3500. The braketech CMC rotors are about $1000 cheaper and would save you close to 2kg on the front.
 
#14 ·
seriously don't waste your money... first off it's not an "investment" as you put it, secondly when people are talking about better handling what are they talking about??? The Hyper out handles and outbrakes most sports bikes as it sits.. Do you really think you need better braking from this bike or even better handling? You have super wide bars that make turn in so easy it pathetic, you have stunning brakes... yes the bike lack the big power but you have the killer torque to compensate unless you are an ultra fast rider. Go spend the money on something else.. All I think this bike really needs is suspension set up for the rider.....I suggest a real investment..
 
#15 · (Edited)
You & Nicky Hayden, both on Idendical bone stock Hyper Motards.... 3 Laps at Laguna Seca.... If you can lap with'in a second of his time, than Buy your wheels, If not I suggest spending it on track days & 1 on 1 instruction, cause without the skills it's just Bling.... & quit pretendig otherwise...

If you want to show off some cool wheels, Then buy the wheels.... If you want to go faster, Buy lessons... Motor work is for Pro's & Bench racers... You can always Lie about what you did to the motor, thats what I do..
 
#16 ·
Again. I think you guys should qualify your opinions by letting us know if you have ever owned a set of BST's. If you think the differance is so nominal that it only counts at the track then it's obvious you haven't owned a set.

The Hyper is a hooligan bike. The BST's make your bike stop better, turn better, wheelie better, take off faster, etc. It makes your bike that much more of a hooligan, that much more fun.
 
#21 ·
I have to throw this back at you. Your entire argument can be changed around for more HP. More motor increases the Hooligan factor way more than wheels. Braking differences will be minimal. The Brembos dont seem to struggle to slow down those big heavy Marchesinis. Turn in will feel different but essentially unchanged due to the leverage that you can generate with the dirt bike handlebars. Accelleration will be significantly better with more motor than it will be with lighter wheels.
I have never owned a set of BST's but I have owned a set of forged PM's that were about 4 lbs lighter than the stockers that I used on my racebike. Generally I would practice on the stockers and then throw on the PM's for the last practice session of the day. Yes you could feel the difference between the 2 but the real world performance differences were minimal. Like a few tenths a lap. Not that much. When I had my engine redone to the tune of about 30 extra HP it made a much more significant impact on lap times for me. (Approx 1 1/2 sec/lap).
The Hyper comes with decent components from the factory. If you are serious about making your bike faster I would focus on setting up the suspension so it works good first. Expensive upgrades are not needed. You can get the stock Hyper suspension to where it works well. At this point take a Schwantz, Code or similar high end riding school. That will do more for you than any mods. Then motor, then wheels. Based on my previous experiences I will say again that the only advantage that you gain from the carbon wheels for street or track day riding is the parking lot "wow" factor. Would I buy a set if I had the cash? Hell ya. But going on and on about the performance gain is just people trying to justify spending $3500 on their Hyper.
<steps off soapbox>
 
#17 ·
Wheels make such a dramatic difference in the overall ridability of the bike that it's almost hard to put into words. The real world handling differences between the Hyper S forged wheels and the Standard's cast wheels are, quite literally, night and day.

I can only imagine the additional improvements to be garnered from a set of BSTs over even the forged S wheels.

Motor work is fun to brag about, but you'll get more riding enjoyment from the wheels ... not to mention the "get to keep 'em after the bike is gone" factor.

My only reservation with carbon or magnesium wheels is their potential for failure. I don't know enough about carbon fiber to comment on its long-term durability in such a high-stress application as a wheel (Dallara may be able to chime in here), but I do know that magnesium wheels need special care because of their potential to crack and corrode. As cool as BSTs are, I just don't trust 'em in terms of longevity.
 
#18 ·
Motor!

Beg to differ, I vote MOTOR!!

I think there nothing like turning the throttle & feeling a bike that has great POWER! To me, you can make up bike's handling by rideing skill, but there's nothing you can do, when you getting pulled down that long straight-away,
unless you have MOTOR !! :D:D LOL Alex
 
#22 ·
Its fun to modify your bike. It's your bike do what you want to it. Please don't argue it is for a genuine useable performance improvement unless it is for the track and you are quite a talented rider.

On the road, a skilled rider goes about the same pace down a twisty road on an SV650 as a GSX-R1000 so the wheels won't make any difference despite being an objective improvement.
 
#23 ·
If it was a case of 3500 being all you could spend - I don't think I would go for the BSTs on a value basis- mainly because you would be taking off a top-shelf item in the forged Marches. Either they sit unused (waste of money), you sell them (for engine mod money), or you spend even more for another set of rotors/tires and have a set of spare wheels.

For 3500, and no more to follow, I would do engine (PC, cams, filter kit) and give Keith Code the rest.
 
#24 ·
While we are talking motor versus wheels I have a question. My dirtbike riding experience (35+ years) is still making it difficult to gracefully knee drag. I'm convinced I don't need CF wheels. However, do CF training wheels exist? :D I really need to get rid of these chicken strips!! Wheelies, fine. Sliding rear out, fine. Leaning that far over, I need a berm. I think my Corsa's are laughing at me by now.
 
#25 · (Edited)
It's all just opinions...

~


And we all know what they say about those... ;) :D ;) :D ;)

Well, certainly mine's worth no more than anyone else's, but here it is, but with a couple of qualifiers first.

1.) No bragging here. Just FYI. I started racing bikes in 1971, and held an AMA Pro license in MX for a few years, and a WERA Expert road race license for a long time. I also raced flat tracks, hare scrambles, and enduros at the expert level. I attended many MX and road race schools and assisted with instruction at both, too, along the way. Again, point is not to fluff, but to say that as many here have stated the learning of the proper skill sets will pay enormous dividends in improving your performance, and without those skill sets you may not be able to take advatage of, or even properly notice the advantage of, lighter wheels or more horsepower...

If you have a good background in proper skill sets, read on.

2.) I mounted a set of forged magnesium Marchesini's to replace the cast aluminum wheels on my Aprilia Tuono, and the handling difference was so staggeringly obvious that I almost couldn't quantify it. It was like a whole new motorcycle... And most importantly, and often not mentioned, the lighter wheels made the suspension work so much better that I thought someone had secretly revalved both ends while I wasn't looking.

3.) I have done lots of engine work on lots of bikes... All I can say is be careful where you head when you go down that road. Which fork you take is ultra-dependent on what kind of riding you do. If it's on the track, going for peak power is usually okay (though not always if you ride only tight courses). If you ride on the street you are almost always better off pursuing more torque across the rev range. The exception to that rule is street drag racing, of course. Literally any other sort of street riding, especially if it involves curves, torque is the better path...

4.) Often forgotten is making the engine (and chassis, but more on that in a moment) as responsive to your needs as possible. Getting accurate throttle response, linear power deliver, minimizing driveline slack, smooth clutch engagement and operation, etc. Me, I can't stand what catalytic converters do to throttle response so for me they have to go first, though right after getting all the slack and friction out of the throttle assembly and linkage, etc. You want the engine to react to exactly how and what you want it do based on your riding style and skill level... This is one of those places where playing with flywheel weights can pay dividends for some. That said, some like engines with heavier flywheels and slower spool-up, while others like the engine to come on like a light-switch. Find what you like and go for it, but don't forget to try new things until you know what your style is. It takes time, and you have to be honest with yourself.

5.) Learn to tune the chassis the same way - where is most responsive to your needs and riding style. Some like super-quick steering and the front end planted like it was in concrete. Others like super-stable and maybe even some slight front end push at the limit. Some like the suspension so stiff you would swear it was made of solid cobalt steel, while others seem to like it to feel like it was made by Serta. Some like steering dampers (and know the proper way to use and tune one), while others can't stand them. A bike needs to handle like you like before you can notice gains from any sort of hop-ups, be it motor or chassis.

Now, all that said... Here's my opinion on the wheels vs. motor question.

Wheels.

That is if you have all the other figured out first.

Wheels not only help with reducing weight, but also improve suspension action dramatically, and I do mean DRAMATICALLY. I'm not talking about going from cast aluminum to forged aluminum. There's a nice difference there, but not a dramatic one. Go from aluminum to magnesium, or better yet, to carbon fiber, and there is a monumental handling difference. The real reason is because almost all the large weight reduction is out at the rim where it makes the most difference.

This is also why they help so damn much with acceleration and braking, and why they often have a far greater effect on handling feel than lighter brake rotors do. Lighter brake rotors only reduce weight down around the hub where it is harder to feel the difference. Super-lightweight wheels reduce a ton of weight out at the rim extremities where you not only can feel it far more easily, but also where it has the most actual and real effect in gyroscopic precession, etc.

As for durability... For most of us here I would not worry about forgecd magnesium or carbon fiber wheels. I think most here take good care of their bikes, and do proper maintenance, and more importantly, inspect their bikes carefully a lot. I also think most of us here ride well enough to avoid the obvious road irregularities that can damage ANY wheel.

Carbon wheels are stronger than anything else out there, period. They are probably stiffer, too, which is why you don't see more MotoGP teams use them IMHO. As sticky as the tires are there, and as hard as those guys ride them, they may need a bit more modulus of elasticity in the structure between the axle and the tire contact patch just to allow some less abrupt and fatiguing feedback... But that's another subject.

Me, again... As soon as MotoWheels gets in the set of BST's they have backordered for me a set will be on my Hyper. BTW, I have an "S" with forged aluminum Marchesini's...

Maybe that's the best way I can answer the question with my personal opinion... :D

Hope you can find something useful in all this gibberish. :eek:

Dallara



~
 
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#27 ·
Carbon wheels are stronger than anything else out there, period. They are probably stiffer, too, which is why you don't see more MotoGP teams use them IMHO. As sticky as the tires are there, and as hard as those guys ride them, they may need a bit more modulus of elasticity in the structure between the axle and the tire contact patch just to allow some less abrupt and fatiguing feedback... But that's another subject.
The reason why MotoGP do not use carbon wheels is more simple. The magnesium wheels used in MotoGP weight just as much as carbon wheels, at less costs.
 
#26 ·
Well stated Dallara. Very educational. Can't wait to hear how you like the wheels.
 
#30 ·
I don't think so...



In MotoGP???

Where???

http://www.fim.ch/en/default.asp?item=27# (Click on "Technical Regulations" for "Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix")

Carbon fiber wheels are illegal in Superbike and Supersport IF they are not offered by the motorcycle manufacturer as standard or optional equipment on the particular homologated model.

Dallara


~
 
#31 ·
I reckon to jamb the 3500 k into something useful ... like a mortgage payment, be happy with your bike for what you bought it for, if it ain't cutting the mustard then step up (if you consider it a step up) to a 1098 with a heap more snort and grunt.

Suspension induces far better handling and accordingly speed through twisties, HP will only buy you time if you don't know how to corner well.

With the exception of our front fork internals our bikes are set up pretty well and the REAL difference from spending huge money on them is negligible IMO.

Not far till Christmas and holidays gents!!, PLAY TIME.:D
 
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