Marzocchi Spring, The Real Info

[Monstaman]

Good morning gents

Ok, taken my fork spring out and sent it away, going from 4.95mm wire to 4.5 mm wire.

We had my mates base model here and we popped his fork cap, he has the same wire diameter however his forks were very plush compared to mine and his have 7.5w oil !!

So the book states the spring is 270 long whereas mine 1s 300 mm long so not sure what the story is there.

Stats are,

300 mm long overall
32.7 ID at the bottom end
27 ID at the top end
36.7 OD to widest point in spring
4.95 mm wire dia
18.75 turns tip to tip
16 turns in complete wire dia

The spring is a progressive wound barrel shaped spring, see photos below.

Rear spring, the base model spring is .20 mm smaller in wire dia than the Ohlins, further the base model has one more complete turn in effect giving the spring another 251 mm of wire to bend ... ie making it plusher.

So if anyone whats to sell a base model rear spring I want one.

[AXE]

Interesting data! I have always thought mine rode pretty good, but I might like the front a little plusher of the sharp stuff.

I guess this concludes the argument that raged in the early days of the Hyper. Should I get the S or the base? A lot of people swore that the S would have better suspension and retain its value much more. It seems that neither statement has held true.

Mama didn't raise no fool!

Out!

[Borracho]

I fell victim to the 'suspension's better on the S' deal...and I don't have the patience that monsta has sooooo, I sent my fork and spring up to Lindemann for a little TLC.

Plus; fork legs to be anodized black? Sweeeeeeet!

[infidel]

Originally Posted by AXE

Interesting data! I have always thought mine rode pretty good, but I might like the front a little plusher of the sharp stuff.

I guess this concludes the argument that raged in the early days of the Hyper. Should I get the S or the base? A lot of people swore that the S would have better suspension and retain its value much more. It seems that neither statement has held true.

Mama didn't raise no fool!

Out!

I don't get it. Are you saying the standard model suspension is better than the S cause the standard model gives a softer ride????????

I think the S model suspension is perfect for the type of riding i enjoy doing. If i wanted a softer ride i'd get a tourer

[Monstaman]

Originally Posted by infidel

I don't get it. Are you saying the standard model suspension is better than the S cause the standard model gives a softer ride????????

I think the S model suspension is perfect for the type of riding i enjoy doing. If i wanted a softer ride i'd get a tourer

Apart from the black nitriting the forks are no better, period.

The rear spring does not have as much adjustability on the S, maybe valving might be better but the spring allows for better setup for the rear on the base model.

I got the S cos I wanted black, next time I would do it differently,save some money and have better kit.

On the Tard anyway S seems to mean sucker, I still love it but for everyone who shelled out for the S it is not better value in the suspension anyway.

[dukepilot]

Not a big surprise that the S is sprung a little stiffer than the standard model. Whether the standard or S is better really depends on your weight, the roads you ride and the type of riding you do. Out of the box, I'm pretty happy with the suspension on my S. Sure, it could be made better/more compliant but after proper setup, alignment and clicker adjustment, I'm pretty happy with it and it works well enough for me.

[Antigrav]

Originally Posted by Monstaman

Apart from the black nitriting the forks are no better, period.

The rear spring does not have as much adjustability on the S, maybe valving might be better but the spring allows for better setup for the rear on the base model.

I got the S cos I wanted black, next time I would do it differently,save some money and have better kit.

On the Tard anyway S seems to mean sucker, I still love it but for everyone who shelled out for the S it is not better value in the suspension anyway.

I agree the S (which I also got) isn't alot better than the standard suspension wise, but the rear is more adjustable with the ride hieght adjustment and the ohlins.... I'm not following your logic about the rear spring and the ohlins having less spring adjustment on the S... preload is the only spring adjustment any bike has, and that is for the most part to get your sag or in some cases ride hieght and spring rate is only changeable by getting a new spring. From what you state the non-S has a softer spring rate, but spring rate alone does not make for plush action. I think Ducati made the S stiff on purpose as they do on the other S lines. Its common fact that stiffer is better for sport riding they probably wanted that. My bike is harsh on sharp bumps but on turn in and holding a line it does its job good. I don't ever expect I will get my cake and eat it too.

Last, after reading all your posts about how much trouble you are having with the suspension it seem you should just match your buddies fork set up since his is plush... but you say you are already ordering new springs with new rates based on wire diameter and such... that seems like a long shot when you can just duplicate your buddies set up...I won't comment on your suspension anymore and I don't mean any disrespect it just seems from reading some of the posts that you are taking shots in the dark.

[Monstaman]

Originally Posted by Antigrav

I agree the S (which I also got) isn't alot better than the standard suspension wise, but the rear is more adjustable with the ride hieght adjustment and the ohlins.... I'm not following your logic about the rear spring and the ohlins having less spring adjustment on the S... preload is the only spring adjustment any bike has, and that is for the most part to get your sag or in some cases ride hieght and spring rate is only changeable by getting a new spring. From what you state the non-S has a softer spring rate, but spring rate alone does not make for plush action. I think Ducati made the S stiff on purpose as they do on the other S lines. Its common fact that stiffer is better for sport riding they probably wanted that. My bike is harsh on sharp bumps but on turn in and holding a line it does its job good. I don't ever expect I will get my cake and eat it too.

Last, after reading all your posts about how much trouble you are having with the suspension it seem you should just match your buddies fork set up since his is plush... but you say you are already ordering new springs with new rates based on wire diameter and such... that seems like a long shot when you can just duplicate your buddies set up...I won't comment on your suspension anymore and I don't mean any disrespect it just seems from reading some of the posts that you are taking shots in the dark.

No offense taken but certainly action.

The rear spring wire is longer on the std model thus allowing it to be more compliant, this coupled with teh Ohlin shock I believe would be a great combo.

The fork springs in essence are too heavy for my weight so I am taking measures to fix that, that is all.

I just think paying for S suspension should give us more than std cartridges etc, the lack of adjustability is a little less than ideal, my 2.5w oil has certainly changed it however I still want it a bit better which I am now doing, no longshots other than the conflicting info we are getting from "the experts".

[Dallara]

Originally Posted by Monstaman

The rear spring wire is longer on the std model thus allowing it to be more compliant, this coupled with teh Ohlin shock I believe would be a great combo.

I know I should perhaps stay out of this one, but...

You are assuming that the spring wire of both springs is of the same material, heat treatment, etc. It is more than just a bit likely that they are nothing of the sort. IIRC, the standard Hyper's rear shock is a Sachs unit while the S models wear an Ohlins. It is doubtful that Sachs and Ohlins source their springs from the same supplier, and so the spring wire of one being longer does not guarantee it will be the more "compliant" of the two. Compliance, as you call it, is not just a function of spring wire length.

Since all springs, whether coiled or not, are essentially torsion bars it is easy to guess that a longer one would "bend" (its deflection being the "compliance" you are mentioning) more easily. If the materials were identical this would be the case, but wire diameter, heat treatment, and even surface treatment are all factors in a spring wire's modulus of elasticity - i.e. deflection characteristics that allow it to bend yet still return to its original orientation without permanent deformation.

I'm not trying to enter into this debate as which bike has better suspension, etc....

Just trying to point out something that might be causing a misconception.

Hope it helps...

Thanks!

Dallara

[Monstaman]

I am cool with all the input, and I have an engineering background and a lot of experience so none of this is just gee look what I found but when the bikes are side by side and one works better and they have been set up the same one asks questions.

Most lighter weight guys grizzle about their forks, if they wonna put up with it fine by me, I choose to do something about it.

Now all I have done is given the real info on spring wires diameters lengths and what I believe will work better, you don't have to take what I am saying as correct and I don't give a fuck if you don't, however there are a lot of people wanting to know the real info of what is in there.

My offer for info is purely based on fact for the spring sizes and lengths, no hype or glory.

I challenge you Dallara, Antigrav and infidel to come up with better and more useful info and solutions if you begrudged at what I have come up with and no one else on this forum is doing anything to get the real oil.. per say!!

And as for our "experts", thus far what have they ACTUALLY contributed, owh I know, send us 1004 US for cartidges and 290 US for springs that we have modified from a dirtbike

Read the second and thirds post as well and know that I am not alone.