Ok, first impressions of HMT vs Super Duke

[SquireSCA]

Made the trade, was kinda sad to see my Duc go. It is such an awesome ride, but then again, so are any of the other bikes I have had in the past 3 years(CBR600F4i, CBR954rr, CBR1000rr Repsol Edition, S2R1000, S4RS, 999s Team USA, FZ1, HMT, etc), so I have gotten used to horse-trading fantastic machines.

I will say that the HMT is sexier looking. It really stands out and gets looks everywhere, even a bikenight full of really nice rides. People stop and stare and admire the Tard.

The Duke is exotic looking too, in a cool and mechanical way, but not in that sexy artistic way like the Ducs are.

However, where it leaves the HMT behind in looks, is in how muscular and mean it looks. It looks like a street fighter, and not one that you would want to mess with.

Handling, I only had a short ride, and the suspension is not yet set up for me, but it feels more like my Jap sportbikes. The thing I liked about the HMT was that I also ride a CRF250X, and so the seating and general feel is similar. But it is a very easy transition to go right from one bike to the other without much effort in refinding balance and all that. Very natural switch, which is what Dan was looking for.

Braking feels about the same. Super Duke falls into corners a bit easier, but part of that is because of the Pilot Powers.

The motor. That is a big difference.

The Hyper has amazing grunt practically from idle, lofting the wheel in first with a flick of the wrist at only 3500rpm. It has a noticeable stronger and harder pull, that responds faster, up to 5000rpm. But after that the bike still pulls but you can really feel the torque dropping. Keep the bike in that 4-6k rpm range on some tight twisties, and the Hyper will hang with just about any bike out there, including literbike I4's. Unless you have longer straights where they can outmuscle you, tight and twisty stuff or around town, the Hyper might be the perfect streetbike. It doesn't need top end power to go fast in that environment.

Now to the Super Duke. Makes decent power down low. Pulls very nice, but whack the throttle in first and it just moves... Until you hit 6,000rpm. Then the bike wakes up and it is literally like turbo kicking in, the motor just roars and the front end flies up and it takes off like a shot, pulling harder and harder to redline, which is 2,000rpm higher than the Tard.

It is not as frantic as the S4RS was, but it is definitely the midpoint between a Hypermotard and an S4RS.

This bike is stock, and so it is putting down an extra 20-22HP at the wheel over the Tard, but it is all up top. I am betting that up to 6000rpm, the Hyper is making more power.

I do plan to do a full exhaust, air filter, Power Commander and possibly an ignition module and quick-shifter, and my hope is that I get it into the 115hp range at the wheel, with 70+ ft/lbs.

That would give it a 30+ hp advantage over the Tard, which on some of the larger tracks like Road Atlanta, I will be able to make use of.

But driving around town, based on my first ride, I don't know if it will be a better bike than the Hyper. It will however give me more power for the track or when on the Interstate.

So I feel that it was a worthwhile tradeoff. I gave up some things, but I got some in return.

I will get another Duc this spring. Not sure which one. Maybe an 848 or a Multistrada after I sell my cruiser.

[oalvarez]

nice writeup, congrats on the trade. i came away with the impression that you actually enjoyed the HM more than the KTM, including the tradeoffs, but if track riding is what prompted it, then i'm guessing you made the right choice.

as for the possibility of purchasing a 848? you won't be sorry that you did. the MS is a focus of mine as well.

have fun

[bromike666]

Originally Posted by oalvarez

nice writeup, congrats on the trade. i came away with the impression that you actually enjoyed the HM more than the KTM, including the tradeoffs, but if track riding is what prompted it, then i'm guessing you made the right choice.

as for the possibility of purchasing a 848? you won't be sorry that you did. the MS is a focus of mine as well.

have fun

PI has one more black multi and there is no black offered in 09.

Get crackin

[BillyD]

Here is a long, sometimes inflamatory, post on KTMTalk about the HM vs KTM 9xx debate.

[motodan]

Put 200 miles on my new Hyper yesterday, and it was worth every minute of the 20 hour trip to get it! This bike is exactly what I was looking for, supermoto riding position, lots of torque and a perfectly balanced wheelie bike.

The Hyper suits my riding style and the roads we have in New England. I love blasting down tight nasty roads that a sportbike rider would not even think of going down. Now I can hang with my buddy on his SXV 550 on the real tight stuff.

This bike is already my favorite bike out of all I have owned, Katana 750,VTR 1000,KTM Duke 640,CBR 600RR,XR 650R Motard,Z1000 and SuperDuke.But my KTM 560SMR was probably more fun on the track.

So for me I made the right choice, the SuperDuke is more sportbike and more track focused, where the Hyper is more of a motard than a sportbike. Also I am now a Ducati fan, This is the first one I have ever ridden and I love it!!!

[Hypremotard]

Originally Posted by BillyD

Here is a long, sometimes inflamatory, post on KTMTalk about the HM vs KTM 9xx debate.

Sorry, you are not allowed to view this topic - it is either a private category for Team KTMTalk members or, it is restricted for validated members (no guests).

[sinex]

I had a Hypermotard in 2007, always regretted selling it, for the back country roads there is no better bike for fun, it is simply puts a grin on your face all the time, with a planned trip to the Prynees next year, I had been thinking of adding a motard bike to the stable along side the Superduke R I run, thoughts were of a KTM SMR-990 due in the UK in the spring of 2009, but if the fueling is anything as violent as the SDR then it would be no good in the moutains, and to be fair those roads are not all about out and out horse power,

A Hypermotard is being delivered on Thursday,

[Chuckracer]

You're not missing much. Most of it is apples and oranges (the 950SM is a VERY different bike than the 990SD...)Here's a couple of the later, more interesting ones:

__________________________________________________ _________

O.k., so here's the video from the HM vs. SM battle last weekend at Buttonwillow.

Both of us were wearing helmet cams, so I trimmed each video down to just the footage where the other bike was in front. It's always better to look at the other bike rather than just open track.

For information going in, it is worth noting that both bikes in this video are being ridden in 4th gear only. The Ducati broke a 'shift assist spring'(?) on lap two of the first session on the first day. No biggie, we rode our sport bikes instead, but by the end of day 2 we decided it was time to go flog the bikes around in 4th. I put the SM in 4th after taking off and left it there. There was actually no reason to touch the clutch at all. Just twist the throttle and listen to it grunt.

Rev limiter in 4th gear on an SM with a 16t countershaft sprocket is 112mph. The Ducati had about 1-2 mph more top speed on the limiter. When watchng the HM video, the flashing light at the top of the cluster is the limiter/shift light.

While it wasn't a true comparison (being stuck in 4th and all), the bikes were remarkable equal. I could pull the HM on corner exit, but he had a slight top speed advantage. Both bikes drug pegs at about the same lean angle. While the lean angles don't appear all that severe in the videos, we were dragging pegs, so with our limited abilities, this was as far over as the bike was going to go. I have no idea how Xaus got that HM so far over in the famous 'thumbs up' photo. In fact, this HM was dragging the non-folding brake pedal and shifter (the shifter was stuck in the down position) until the brake was adjusted up and the shifter was removed for this session. It wasn't doing anything anyway!

Lastly, the group we are riding in is a pretty average track day 'B' group. It is the end of the day on day 2 so the track is pretty empty. It was funny to have some of the sport bike riders comment on being passed by us on these bikes and then see their faces when they found out we had one gear!

Enjoy!

First, the HM perspective.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RD5icwIQ6lQ


I'll edit in the SM perspective video in a little bit...

Here it is,

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fyMt28h3wNE

__________________________________________________ _______



I write for Inside Motorcycles magazine here in Canada, and we did a shootout between the SD and the HMS. We had Calabogie Motorsports track to ourselves for a day, and we had a ton of fun with these two bikes. They're really so different that it's hard to pick a winner between the two.

The HM takes more skill to ride well. It's abrupt, aggressive and twitchy. It's way easier to ride the SD smoothly, and the additional power is easily felt -- the SD will pull away from the HM by the order of three or four bike-lengths on a straightaway. But if you've got the minerals to ride the HM hard enough, it rewards with an incredibly intimate, primitive, ingratiating feel.

I wish I could post the entire article for you guys. I guess you'll have to subscribe!

Jason

[Monstaman]

Originally Posted by Chuckracer

I wish I could post the entire article for you guys. I guess you'll have to subscribe!

Jason

Great article and vids anyway, top effort!

[SquireSCA]

Originally Posted by motodan

Put 200 miles on my new Hyper yesterday, and it was worth every minute of the 20 hour trip to get it! This bike is exactly what I was looking for, supermoto riding position, lots of torque and a perfectly balanced wheelie bike.

The Hyper suits my riding style and the roads we have in New England. I love blasting down tight nasty roads that a sportbike rider would not even think of going down. Now I can hang with my buddy on his SXV 550 on the real tight stuff.

This bike is already my favorite bike out of all I have owned, Katana 750,VTR 1000,KTM Duke 640,CBR 600RR,XR 650R Motard,Z1000 and SuperDuke.But my KTM 560SMR was probably more fun on the track.

So for me I made the right choice, the SuperDuke is more sportbike and more track focused, where the Hyper is more of a motard than a sportbike. Also I am now a Ducati fan, This is the first one I have ever ridden and I love it!!!

I am glad that you like it! Sounds like it is perfect for ya.

I am missing the bottom end grunt, I will be honest. But I do like the top end hit and the more sportbike feel to it.

But tweaking the throttle at slow speeds and it effortlessly lofting the front end is something that I will miss. I can do it on this bike, but only if a clutch it. Else I have to wait for 6000rpm or so, and by then I am doing 35mph, so if you want to just goof around in a parking lot or at low speeds, the Hyper has a huge advantage.

Oh, and I changed the oil yesterday, I will copy and past my experience that I posted on another forum:

Oil changes are usually a snap, until the Super Duke. LOL

Normally, drop the drain plug, drop the filter, drain, replace drain plug and new filter, add oil, off you go. 15 minutes tops, right?

No.

Super Duke has an external oil tank behind the radiator. Has a drain plug, plus two mesh screens and a hose that has to be removed. Also have to remove the lower cowl, and the upper right fairing.

But that's not all!

Drain plug comes out, clean magnet while it drains. Then remove filter and lower mesh screen, clean, let oil drain, not too bad.

Now you have to pull the hose off the oil tank, both the drain the tank, and to get to the second mesh screen that is inside the hose.

Well, when you do that, the oil has only one way to pour out.

All over the wiring harnesses and relay, that sits up against the battery that is in the lower cowl area! Worst place ever for the battery, harnesses and relays. If you ever went over a curb, it would smash the battery and electronics and the bike would be dead in the water. Granted, going over a curb in a sportbike is a bad idea anyway, and it can bang up that part of your fairing, but killing the bike???

Stupid Austrians.

But that's not all!

The manual says the bike holds "approx 3 liters of oil".

Ok, and then it says to put 2.75L into the oil tank, put in the filler cap in and then let it run for a few minutes and check the level.

Now, I let every part of the bike drain for like 15 minutes, there was nothing in the bike. Yet putting 2.75L in, was about .2L too much, because it overflowed all over the damned place.

So I cleaned that up, let the bike warm up which pumped some of the oil down into the motor and filter, and then added some to get it to the right level.

Took well over and hour, made a huge freakin mess, and went through an entire $10 can of brake cleaner spray to clean up the damned bike, floor and tools.

The bike is awesome, I love it. But man, that is the dumbest setup I have ever seen for changing oil, and I have had a couple bikes now.

Granted, Jap bikes often have things crammed so tight together that you need 6 year old asian hands to get to, and Italians do some really dumb things too.

This one just surprised me. To have the battery and stuff in the most vulnerable spot on the bike, right where the oil pours all over it, just seems really stupid.

I can get it done faster next time now that I know the procedure, but it is still 3 times longer than it should be, and 100x as messy.

Grrrr...

At least the bike is awesome, I will give them that.

Apart from that, I love the way the bike is put together, the thing really is an awesome machine. Overall, I am a HP junkie, so I feel it has the edge in that regard, and it will help me at some of the larger tracks, but I cannot say it is a "better" bike than the Duc.

Duc is better in half the situations, and the SD is better in others. It all comes down to where you are gonna ride it and what style you ride.

Optimally, I would have loved to have both, or I never would have gotten ride of my Hyper! But in this economy, I had to give up something to get something, so I feel it was a good trade in the end.

Thanks to Dan for coming here and offering it up, I am pleased with it so far.

Of course, I have to go buy another Duc before summer... LOL