Opinions about "motorcycle" oils

[hyperdookie]

Since this bike runs a dry clutch, do you think it is necessary or even advantagous to run a motorcycle specific oil?Aren't some additives left out of these oils to allow the function of a wet clutch?I'm pretty sure this has been covered before so I apologize in advance.

[Dallara]

Don't know about anyone else, but IMHO there is no reason to run a *motorcycle specific* oil in a bike with a dry clutch. There are "friction modifiers" in automobile oils that can cause slippage under certain circumstances in motorcycles with wet clutches. That's why you don't want to use them if you have a wet clutch.

Now, on the other hand, these same "friction modifiers" and other anti-wear additives in car oils not only reduce friction - and hence lessen frictional loss and improve power output and reduce heat - but also reduce wear significantly. Some of the anti-wear additives, such as high levels of zinc, can dramatically reduce wear on high-load areas like cam faces, etc.

In fact, particularly during break-in, it might be advantageous to add zinc-fortified additives like the following:

http://www.lucasoil.com/products/dis...tid=3&loc=show

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_c...bCategoryID=35

These bolster zinc content and can help save a lot of engine surfaces, particularly under high-load conditions, not to mention start-up. The caveat to all the zinc additive business is that in large enough percentages it can damage catalytic converters... And it makes wet clutches slip.

Because of the catalytic converter issue zinc is being removed from even car oils. Doesn't mean it still doesn't reduce wear, cut friction, etc.... It just means that it isn't "emissions friendly"...

Even without the zinc, car oils can actually perform better in wear and power output tests because of other friction-reducing additive packages that can harm wet clutches. Ducati's having a dry clutch can certainly take advantage of these car oils as well as the zinc additives mentioned above.

Needless to say, a pure synthetic oil should be on your priority list, but often times car synthetics will be *SIGNIFICANTLY* less expensive than motorcycle-specific oils. This is a wonderful advantage since you really want to change your oil and filter, particularly in air-cooled engines, every 3,000 miles or so. Even the very best of oils, including synthetics, begin to show very measurable breakdown at even less than 3,000 miles... despite manufacturers claims of ultra-high mileages before oil changing.

You can even save some more money by looking into synthetic diesel oils, which are often priced as much as half even car synthetics.

Of course, this is all from my own research and personal experience, and as such is just my opinion... Your mileage may vary.

Hope it helps at least a bit, though.

Dallara

[hyperdookie]

Helpful?Yes.Unfortunately I started thinking about this subject after I purchased a case of Redline motorcycle oil.Guess my buddy is going to get a case of oil for his 848!Think I'll stick with Redline since I can get a good price on it, but I think I'll run the standard automotive full synthetic.Thanks for the response.

[pops65]

You are forgetting that most motorcycles use the same oil in the transmissions which require anti-shear properties not found in automobile oil.

Let the games begin!!!!!

[Dallara]

Nothing wrong with Redline oils. They make an excellent product and they have a very large following in auto racing. BTW, if you have any liquid-cooled bikes cutting down significantly on the amount of anti-freeze and using Redline's "Water Wetter" with distilled water will cut your engine operating temperatures dramatically. Down here in South Texas (where it rarely freezes, even for a day) I run a coolant mix in all my liquid-cooled street vehicles of 15% anti-freeze - primarily just for water pump lubrication - and 85% distilled water with the appropriate amount of Redline "Water Wetter" for the system capacity. It is not uncommon to see coolant temp drops of 20 to 25 degrees. Needless to say this reduces oil temps, reduces engine wear, and improves power.

But back to oils... Sorry.

How many miles are on your bike?

IMHO, if its under 6,000 miles or so I definitely recommend running a plain, jane dino (mineral, not synthetic) oil with the zinc additives mentioned above. This will provide excellent wear resistance while still allowing proper ring seating.

Now I know there is a *HUGE*, continually raging controversy over running synthetics during break-in, etc., but all I can speak from is experience from being a mechanic most of life, lots of racing, and owning and operating a motorcycle shop for 11 years. We often had engines with glazed bores and no sign of ring break-in from running synthetics from the beginning and during break-in. Take for what it's worth, and your mileage may vary, but I would stick to any good name brand car oil in your dry-clutch Ducati for the first 6,000 miles (with the zinc additives mentioned previously if you don't care about your catalytic converter or run an aftermarket exhaust)... IMHO you should choose between 10W-40, 20W-50, or similar grade Shell, Castrol GTX, Mobil, etc. motor oil during that time.

After that make your switch to your chosen synthetic - Redline in this case - and even continue to run the zinc anti-wear additives if you wish. Change the oil and filter frequently and don't run the oil level too high and the engine should never experience any failure from wear or lubrication issues.

Again, just my two cents, but I hope it helps.

Dallara

[gp637]

There was a study in a motorcycle mag several years ago where they took two identical bikes, used regular automobile motor oil in one and motorcycle spefic in the other. I think both bikes had the oil and filter changed every 3K miles and no difference in engine wear was found. I'll have to try to find that magazine and give more details.

[SquireSCA]

Originally Posted by Dallara

Nothing wrong with Redline oils. They make an excellent product and they have a very large following in auto racing. BTW, if you have any liquid-cooled bikes cutting down significantly on the amount of anti-freeze and using Redline's "Water Wetter" with distilled water will cut your engine operating temperatures dramatically. Down here in South Texas (where it rarely freezes, even for a day) I run a coolant mix in all my liquid-cooled street vehicles of 15% anti-freeze - primarily just for water pump lubrication - and 85% distilled water with the appropriate amount of Redline "Water Wetter" for the system capacity. It is not uncommon to see coolant temp drops of 20 to 25 degrees. Needless to say this reduces oil temps, reduces engine wear, and improves power.

But back to oils... Sorry.

How many miles are on your bike?

IMHO, if its under 6,000 miles or so I definitely recommend running a plain, jane dino (mineral, not synthetic) oil with the zinc additives mentioned above. This will provide excellent wear resistance while still allowing proper ring seating.

Now I know there is a *HUGE*, continually raging controversy over running synthetics during break-in, etc., but all I can speak from is experience from being a mechanic most of life, lots of racing, and owning and operating a motorcycle shop for 11 years. We often had engines with glazed bores and no sign of ring break-in from running synthetics from the beginning and during break-in. Take for what it's worth, and your mileage may vary, but I would stick to any good name brand car oil in your dry-clutch Ducati for the first 6,000 miles (with the zinc additives mentioned previously if you don't care about your catalytic converter or run an aftermarket exhaust)... IMHO you should choose between 10W-40, 20W-50, or similar grade Shell, Castrol GTX, Mobil, etc. motor oil during that time.

After that make your switch to your chosen synthetic - Redline in this case - and even continue to run the zinc anti-wear additives if you wish. Change the oil and filter frequently and don't run the oil level too high and the engine should never experience any failure from wear or lubrication issues.

Again, just my two cents, but I hope it helps.

Dallara

If that was true about breakin and synthetic oil, then why do Ducs come off the showroom floor with Shell synthetic oil?

Your rings are seated loooong before 6k miles. Hell, in 100 miles, your pistons have gone up and down, what, a million or so times?

Break in happens a lot faster than people think. Look at an owner's manual for a late model Honda sportbike, and the breakin procedure is one sentance:

"Try to avoid excessive RPM and hard launches for the first 300 miles".

Not the "do not take about 6000rpm for 600 miles, then 8000rpm till 1000 miles, and don't switch to synthetic until at least 5000 miles, etc..."

Basically, don't beat the piss out of it on the ride home, just ride it normal and after a couple hundred miles, ride it like you stole it.

[Dallara]

Originally Posted by pops65

You are forgetting that most motorcycles use the same oil in the transmissions which require anti-shear properties not found in automobile oil.

Let the games begin!!!!!

Not at all. And that's a claim the oil manufacturers love allude to in order to sell higher priced motorcycle oils... And to some small degree it may have been true decades ago when all we had were dino oils, and often poor ones, at that. But these days those claims don't hold water, at least according to testing, with modern oils, and particularly synthetics.

When it comes to oil shear, if your worried, just change the oil - whatever it may be - at intervals of 3,000 miles or less. *ALL* oils, whether dino or synthetic... car, truck, or motorcycle... show measurable break-down due to shear at even less mileage than that. So again, change it often and use good, brand name stuff and you'll never have a problem.

Now, just for the record, it should be noted that dedicated *GEAR* oils have significantly high levels of sulphur - which is what gives them their characteristic smell - for gear and impact cushioning. That's why if you have a separate gearbox you should run a dedicated gear lube. That said you will never see significant levels of sulphur in any motor oil for emissions and pollution reasons. It also has a tendency to readily form acidic compounds in the sump of engines due to the different operating environment inside and engine as compared to a gearbox.

Today's car oils have measurably equal shear strength to any motorcycle-specific oils, particularly when you are talking about synthetics. Diesel oils also have very high specific shear-stable indexes.

Just another couple of cents tossed out there...

Dallara

[hyperdookie]

I'm coming up on 2000mi. Changed the oil and filter at 600, dumped the oil again and checked the filter screen (no filter change)at 1200 when I installed the full Termi.I went with Motul 10-40 mineral oil for the reasons you mentioned.Now that I'm starting to ride the bike a lot harder,and a higher temps,I was considering switching to synthetic and changing it at 3000 mi intervals.

[lelenb]

A great deal of opinion of course has been shed on this. Many claims of big gains from increased anti-shear additives in motorcycle oils is over stated. There is a small benefit to them but it is not an overwhelming improvement. Motorcycle Consumer News did a story on oils quite some time ago, and I would like to see them do it again http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm

If you change your oil at regular intervals most any synthetic oil should be good. I like Mobil 1 15-50 because it is a proven oil and I can buy it at Walmart for a reasonable price. Amsoil might be a better oil from some of the tests I have seen, but I have no worries that I am damaging my engine. I change my oil every 2,000 miles or so now that it is broken in and the Mobil 1 that comes out is fresh, clean, and still has viscosity. I tried Motul motorcycle oil during the break in phase and I drained it after about 800 miles and it was dark, stinky and watery. I then moved to Shell Rotella T non synthetic diesel oil for the rest of my break in and it held up great. The most important thing is to avoid automotive oils that are "Energy Conserving" as they are lacking in zinc based and other "polluting" additives that are beneficial to our motors. Quite a few old British cars have had their valve trains ruined by these new energy conserving oils.

Buy a good oil and change it often, it just that simple.