Suspension Question - Ducati.ms

Joe1L · Jun 11th, 2008, 7:15 am

I'm very new to road bikes, but have been riding for 20+ years now on the dirt. I have a question about suspension settings for my Hyper. I guess i'm on the heavy side (215), when I pull the front brakes I notice lots of squating at lower speeds which I hate. Should I be adjusting my front forks to reduce this or, is this ok at lower speeds. Also If i tighten up the compression, will the front be more likely to lock up?

I've been trying to get an appointment with a local bike shop to set up my suspension, but till then, I'd like to do some fine tuning.

freezer16801 · Jun 11th, 2008, 7:34 am

there is no sense taking it to a local shop. That is, of course, unless you live next door to traxxion or another good suspension/race shop. Likely, you don't have enough preload in your front forks. It is easy to measure and adjust with a helper. I use my non-mechanically inclined girlfriend to do the measuring.

Try downloading the PDF's from here http://www.feelthetrack.com/tuning_guide.htm

It should serve as a complete guide to getting your suspension set up properly.

I weigh just shy of you at 207 lbs. I added two turns of preload to the front and 2.5 turns to the rear.

The owner's manual will tell you which knobs to turn if you aren't sure about that. I'd imagine from your vast dirt experience, you know what you're doing though.

Compression won't make anything lock up. It will change the feel of the damping. More compression will give a stiffer feel. Less will make the bike looser.

Joe1L · Jun 11th, 2008, 7:53 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by freezer16801

there is no sense taking it to a local shop. That is, of course, unless you live next door to traxxion or another good suspension/race shop. Likely, you don't have enough preload in your front forks. It is easy to measure and adjust with a helper. I use my non-mechanically inclined girlfriend to do the measuring.

Try downloading the PDF's from here http://www.feelthetrack.com/tuning_guide.htm

It should serve as a complete guide to getting your suspension set up properly.

I weigh just shy of you at 207 lbs. I added two turns of preload to the front and 2.5 turns to the rear.

The owner's manual will tell you which knobs to turn if you aren't sure about that. I'd imagine from your vast dirt experience, you know what you're doing though.

Compression won't make anything lock up. It will change the feel of the damping. More compression will give a stiffer feel. Less will make the bike looser.

Hey man thanks for the great info!! I've been on ATVs not for a while and have suspension down for them, and just wanted to make sure I'm thinking right. On my atv's , depending on the terrain i ride, (slow and really rocky i set the compression nice and soft) (fast and choppy set hard) My rebound on the other hand I have always set nice and slow in the rear, so it wont hop up and hit you, and in the front a bit faster. What is the general consensus for rebound? Also without looking at the manual, i'm guessing the compression is on top of the forks, and rebound at the bottom?

AXE · Jun 11th, 2008, 11:56 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe1L

Hey man thanks for the great info!! I've been on ATVs not for a while and have suspension down for them, and just wanted to make sure I'm thinking right. On my atv's , depending on the terrain i ride, (slow and really rocky i set the compression nice and soft) (fast and choppy set hard) My rebound on the other hand I have always set nice and slow in the rear, so it wont hop up and hit you, and in the front a bit faster. What is the general consensus for rebound? Also without looking at the manual, i'm guessing the compression is on top of the forks, and rebound at the bottom?

Joel, I agree with Freezer and his recommendation to follow some of the established guidelines for setting suspension. I have a fairly detailed post on my settings and I am about 6' and clock in around 220lbs with full riding gear. That should get you close.

In my opinion, at your weight you need to add some rear preload as well as front preload. This will keep the rear from squating under acceleration and firm up the front. It will make it much less twitchy at speed too.

One thing to keep in mind with the Hyper, is that it will be hard to get the front suspension to be within a typcial streetbike range for sag. It is essentially a long travel front suspension.

I wouldn't mess with the compression and rebound settings until you get the sag set first. Otherwise, you will just be masking the real issue for you weight.

If you are used to doing you atvs, you will figure out the Hyper too. Once you do, you will experience a completely different bike.

Out!

freezer16801 · Jun 11th, 2008, 6:23 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe1L

Hey man thanks for the great info!! I've been on ATVs not for a while and have suspension down for them, and just wanted to make sure I'm thinking right. On my atv's , depending on the terrain i ride, (slow and really rocky i set the compression nice and soft) (fast and choppy set hard) My rebound on the other hand I have always set nice and slow in the rear, so it wont hop up and hit you, and in the front a bit faster. What is the general consensus for rebound? Also without looking at the manual, i'm guessing the compression is on top of the forks, and rebound at the bottom?

you are welcome for the advise.

rebound is on the top of the fork and compression is on the bottom. It is opposite for the shock, compression up top on the resevior and rebound on the bottom at the base of the shock.

Once you set sag, I like to balance the fork with rebound so the fork returns as quick as possible without oscillating. Then I try to match the rear shocks rebound rate with the front so front and back come up at the same rate.

GMP · Jun 25th, 2008, 8:45 am

For the first time I had the front end do a little dance today. What target race sag (rider sag) numbers are you guys working with? I do a lot of off road suspension for myself and friends but this is a different animal. For my weight (185) I get the impression that the rear has too much preload and this is causing the fork to be loaded. This causes the fork to operate too low in the stroke where the action is stiffer, and also increases braking dive. My rear sag is only 25mm and my gut feel is its to little. The 33% guideline would put it at 47mm but this is very generic and every suspension geometry is different. My guess would be to soften the rear preload, and then balance the front. The bike also feels over damped. I think I would start with the comp close to full out and add enough to keep the bike from feeling too "active". Of course, if the springs are incorrect for your weight then its all a wash.

GHEZZI · Jun 25th, 2008, 4:10 pm

Glen, check out my thread, "Steering Damper Not Needed". We are of similar weight. From new I was told to let the suspension settle in for a 1000k. Afterwards it still felt too harsh in it's action. First I tried taking out a little comp and reb damping, not much different, I could still feel the front tyre bouncing off the road, still too harsh a ride.

Next I returned damping to std and removed 3 full turns of pre-load, this felt much better but final trimming was needed. So I booked into local non-dealer Ducati mechanic (who races a TZ250). Bevan stated, "RACE TUNED SUSPENSION WON'T WORK ON THE ROAD" It needs to be softer because the bumps are bigger and your speed is slower. My pre-load was good and he took some damping out.

Since then I have not needed a steering damper, no slaps. The quality of the ride is sooooo goooood. I have bottomed out the front twice on huge bumps. The first one an ST2 in front scraped his header/collector under the sump, we were vertical traveling in a straight line.

Thus far the rear has only needed damping changes, I like a firm but compliant ride. Those I ride with call me a nutter, coz of my speed, but the reason they can't keep up is coz they have fallen for the trap of a 'race set-up'. Go too fast over the bumps in a corner and the bike starts to get really loose, I actually love that feeling, but in the end you have to back-off. Ciao!

GMP · Jun 25th, 2008, 9:06 pm

I read that but what puzzles me is that you left the rear preload stock, and took all the preload out of the fork. To me that sounds like it would really unbalance the bike and make it oversteer and unstable. You have an S though, are the spring rates the same as a standard?

I still think the rear is too jacked up and pitches the bike foward, I'd just like to know what is the correct race sag to run with this suspension. Maybe 25mm is OK and the spring is too stiff. Any Hyper suspension experts visit this forum? I have a friend who is a proffesional off road suspension tuner with some street, track and dirt track experience. Guy taught me a lot, I'll see what he thinks.

Joe1L · Jun 26th, 2008, 7:16 am

I went to a local shop (Washington Cycle Works) to have them setup my suspension for me. To me the bike felt fine stock, but the 25$ I spent having them setup my suspension was the best money I've spent on this bike! The bike feels alot better, before it would move around on me in the turns at slower speeds, where now it feels like its on rails. Even my acceleration has improved a bit! Wow what a difference, the guys are pretty well known in the area, even my dealer had recommended i go to them after 1k miles to have it setup. Anyhow they told me that the Hyper comes out of the box quite well setup, as opposed the 1098's which they say they have to spend quite a bit of time on them to get them right.

ADHD · Jun 26th, 2008, 7:34 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe1L

I went to a local shop (Washington Cycle Works) to have them setup my suspension for me. To me the bike felt fine stock, but the 25$ I spent having them setup my suspension was the best money I've spent on this bike! The bike feels alot better, before it would move around on me in the turns at slower speeds, where now it feels like its on rails. Even my acceleration has improved a bit! Wow what a difference, the guys are pretty well known in the area, even my dealer had recommended i go to them after 1k miles to have it setup. Anyhow they told me that the Hyper comes out of the box quite well setup, as opposed the 1098's which they say they have to spend quite a bit of time on them to get them right.

Funny, I am having WCW set up my suspension this Saturday!