3-20 Hypermotard News

[Buckelew]

Not much to say, just a tease, but what the heck: http://www.ducati.com/news/07/news008/news008.jhtml

[desmoworks]

just to add a little more news, I was told today that HM1100S will definitely be here in June with the standard in July! I'll let you know how it is in June!

[Ducnewby]

Hey Ducati Owners... I am taking a leap of faith here. I Just put my $$ down on the new HM. First in line for the "S" model. I have done research and also tried to look at comparable Supermoto models. Nothing seems to compare. I was told by a KTM dealer that Ducati's are wrought with problems and costly to maintain. I have no problem buying a bike that has typical maintenence issues, but you guys, who have owned them, tell me one thing... Is this a bike that will give me problems in the future? I know it is the newest, latest greatest. In the past, have there been problems with Ducati's new releases?
Thanks Ducnewby

[1TRKMND775]

No worries, they are very reliable. Not like a japanese big 3, but take care of it, it will take care of you.

[bevel450]

There is so much truth to what the KTM fellow says, but he didn't tell you that the current generation Ducs are as reliable as anything out there. Unfortunately for Ducati, several decades of funky quality reputation will take a long time to live down.

Buy the bike.

Originally Posted by Ducnewby

Hey Ducati Owners... I am taking a leap of faith here. I Just put my $$ down on the new HM. First in line for the "S" model. I have done research and also tried to look at comparable Supermoto models. Nothing seems to compare. I was told by a KTM dealer that Ducati's are wrought with problems and costly to maintain. I have no problem buying a bike that has typical maintenence issues, but you guys, who have owned them, tell me one thing... Is this a bike that will give me problems in the future? I know it is the newest, latest greatest. In the past, have there been problems with Ducati's new releases?
Thanks Ducnewby

[Nove-R]

Leap of faith is not really on the Ducati marquee- Ducati has gotten their act together in recent years since the Americans took them over and taught them how to build bikes that don't fall apart.
The gamble is on buying the first year version of a completely new bike. Seems like a lot of money to spend to be a beta tester for Ducati. I'd personally wait until model year 2. Buy a used KTM or whatever to get your jones out until then.

The fishy thing though, is the new "reduced maintenance" thing that they're using to push the 1098's. Local highly respected dealer says that it was something dreamed up by the marketing department, not engineering, and they are not advising customers to follow this schedule because they feel that it's not thorough enough. This dealer apparently hands out 2 versions of the maintenance schedule with new 1098 purchases- the official Ducati line, and the one recommended by the head tech at the dealership, and it's up to the customer to decide which one to follow, though the obvious recommendation from them is to follow the more frequent one.

[MikeM]

Originally Posted by Nove-R

Leap of faith is not really on the Ducati marquee- Ducati has gotten their act together in recent years since the Americans took them over and taught them how to build bikes that don't fall apart.

Well, it is April Fools Day, after all. And exactly which Americans with motorcycle building experience would they have been? Expats from the Harley plant in Milwaukee? LOL

I guess everyone's experience varies. My 996 (built under the American-owned regime) was far less reliable than the bevel-era bikes I owned. Ah, stereotypes. Maybe some Americans will finally buy Ferrari and help them get their act together, as well.

[baldheadeddork]

Originally Posted by Nove-R

Leap of faith is not really on the Ducati marquee- Ducati has gotten their act together in recent years since the Americans took them over and taught them how to build bikes that don't fall apart.
The gamble is on buying the first year version of a completely new bike. Seems like a lot of money to spend to be a beta tester for Ducati. I'd personally wait until model year 2. Buy a used KTM or whatever to get your jones out until then.

The fishy thing though, is the new "reduced maintenance" thing that they're using to push the 1098's. Local highly respected dealer says that it was something dreamed up by the marketing department, not engineering, and they are not advising customers to follow this schedule because they feel that it's not thorough enough. This dealer apparently hands out 2 versions of the maintenance schedule with new 1098 purchases- the official Ducati line, and the one recommended by the head tech at the dealership, and it's up to the customer to decide which one to follow, though the obvious recommendation from them is to follow the more frequent one.

I smell bullshit. No manufacturer will screw around with service intervals as a marketing gimmick because the stakes are just too high. If the increased intervals leads to oil passages being blocked with gunk, Ducati will have to replace thousands of engines. (Which happened to Toyota two years ago.) Even a relatively minor problem, like flaking of a hard chromed surface, will eat up much, much more than could have been gained by selling a handful of additional bikes.

Which raises another point. Ducati is already selling practically every motorcycle it can make, and has for a while now. As far as I know they don't have a lot of leftover inventory at the end of a model year. I do know the entire year of production for the 1098 is already spoken for, so why would they have to come up with any gimmick to push them out the door?

On the other side of the coin, customer-paid service is a huge profit center for the dealer. Every tech worth hiring knows how to beat the snot out of the clock on these jobs, and the minimum amount of troubleshooting greatly increases the efficiency of the shop.

Make no mistake, the lengthened service schedules are going to cost dealers money in the short run and some will try to limit their losses.

[Nove-R]

Originally Posted by MikeM

Well, it is April Fools Day, after all. And exactly which Americans with motorcycle building experience would they have been? Expats from the Harley plant in Milwaukee? LOL

From the ducati.com website:

"In 1996 Ducati was taken over by Texas Pacific Group, an American investment firm that brought much needed cash and a new group of international managers. Simultaneously, the launch of the ST family allowed Ducati to enter the Sport Touring segment of the market.

The new management team, together with the old group of engineers responsible for product development, turned the company around posting quarter after quarter of record sales and profits."

"LOL" huh? Still laughing?

In addition to injecting cash and hiring a new management team, they also brought American manufacturing consultants over to re-vamp the entire factory. I don't know if they came from Harley Davidson, but I doubt it.
Their entire manufacturing process is different now. Before it was an assembly line where each person screwed something onto the bike and pushed it along to the next person. Now, 1 person pulls all the parts for say, an engine, and builds it themselves, so if the engine doesn't work, they know who to blame. Since they did that, reliability went through the roof. One worker follows the bike down the line and builds it, instead of sitting on their ass as bikes move past them. This is one of the many things that the Americans taught them. Another, is that Ducati doesn't manufacture anything anymore, they only assemble. Frames are built and painted elsewhere by subcontractors, gas tanks are built and painted elsewhere, entire wheel assemblies (wheel, tire, brake discs) are made and fully assembled elsewhere, cylinders and crank cases are cast elsewhere, etc, etc, etc. Only assembly and finish work are done at the factory.
I was there 4 months ago, so I'm not talking out my ass, and I'm certainly not spreading "stereotypes". There is no stereotype involved in saying that Ducati used to build bikes that required tons of expensive maintenance, no stereotype in saying that they bought rockers from several different subcontractors and some of them flaked badly, but they had no idea which. Also no stereotype in saying that it took several years for them to work out all the manufacturing and subcontracting issues. Your 996 was built at time when the were still working things out, so it has issues. The switchover wasn't instant in 1996, it took a while.
Tell me what issues the XX9 bikes have had, along the lines of flaking rockers or leaking oil? I haven't heard of any, and I researched pretty hard before I bought my bike (including a day at the factory in Bologna asking a lot of questions).

Cheers!

[Nove-R]

Originally Posted by baldheadeddork

I smell bullshit. No manufacturer will screw around with service intervals as a marketing gimmick because the stakes are just too high. If the increased intervals leads to oil passages being blocked with gunk, Ducati will have to replace thousands of engines. (Which happened to Toyota two years ago.)

Wait, now I smell bullshit. You said that "no manufacturer will screw around..." then you cite an example of the No.2 (soon to be No.1) auto manufacturer in the world that did just that. You're not great at making compelling arguments, it seems. Besides, "oil passages clogged with gunk?" Are you serious? We're talking about 1098's that run fully synthetic racing oil. "clogged with gunk". That's rich. Not much experience in the corporate world, huh? Guess what, there's constant struggle between the people that create a product, and the bean counters and marketers. Ducati is no different.
You don't think a company desperate enough to lower the sales price of their flagship line by $1000 in an effort to compete with the Japanese, would tell their engineers to push the service limits to the edge so that they can address the No. 1 stereotypical complaint of their brand, and brag from the mountaintops that there is "50% less maintenance" (and it even has it's own logo).
I'm just telling you what I heard from a salesman at a dealership on Ducati 1098 day.
Cheers!