Surging, the idiots guide (I hope) - Ducati.ms

twozzie · Jan 18th, 2012, 12:55 pm

I've scoured the forum, read the posts and many of them talk about curing the surging on the Hyper and most get into techy speak (imo) so I'm hoping one of you "knowledgable types" can simplify the story for us lesser mortals. My questions arebased on comments I read but if they are wrong or more info will help, feel free to chime in (please keep it simple)

Will changing the front sprocket ease the surging?
What is an optimizer and will this ease the surging?
Powercommander doesn't list anything for the Hyper 1100, what else is out there?
Assume all of the above is based on an original stock bike.

Thanks all

Darsey · Jan 18th, 2012, 1:05 pm

Yes I'm like yourself Towssie, I don't understand all this terminology. So I am keen to listen in here to this site

Akasam · Jan 18th, 2012, 1:28 pm

What year hyper do you have?

Front sprockets change the surge because you will constantly be running at higher rev. But, it is just an bandage for the surge problem.

The power commander part number is PCV 14-009. The website is not up to date but if you look for that on any other website or even google, you can find them anywhere. This PCV comes with an optimizer. The stock ECU ( Bikes Computer) has a section that will not allow any external device to make changes to it ( such as the PCV), this is called Closed loop. The closed loop area is controlled by the the information the ECU gets from the O2 censor. The optimizer is a stand alone box that plugs in between the stock O2 censors and the ECU. It tricks the ECU into changing the AFR (Air Fuel Ratio) so that it is not set for emissions but instead drivability. The closed loop range is between 0-4000 RPMs.

If all you want to do is fix the drivability of the 0-4000 RPMs and make no other up grades, all you really need is the optimizer for the best result. You can only get them from people who bought a PCV and reflashed ( reprogrammed the bikes computer so there is no close loop section) the ECU.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twozzie

I've scoured the forum, read the posts and many of them talk about curing the surging on the Hyper and most get into techy speak (imo) so I'm hoping one of you "knowledgable types" can simplify the story for us lesser mortals. My questions arebased on comments I read but if they are wrong or more info will help, feel free to chime in (please keep it simple)

Will changing the front sprocket ease the surging?
What is an optimizer and will this ease the surging?
Powercommander doesn't list anything for the Hyper 1100, what else is out there?
Assume all of the above is based on an original stock bike.

Thanks all

Sent from my Motorcycle iPad app

Drinky · Jan 18th, 2012, 1:35 pm

You have a 2008 hyper right?

Use Ducatidiag, it's pretty cheap( $20 bucks for cables) and you can adjust the fuel trim to stop the surging.

Read this

Oh My!

and this is the website where you can get it from

ducatidiag :: Connexion

ccemn1 · Jan 18th, 2012, 5:03 pm

Today, I put a Power Commander and get a custom, Dyno tuned map done on every fuel injected bike I buy. I had a bad experience with my Aprilia several years ago that almost resulted in me selling it, I was so disillusioned & disstaisfied! A PC & custom map, took a turd & turned it into a GP Bike!
Most new bikes are mapped incredibly poorly in order to pass rigid EPA & polution Specs in every state & country.This just about nesessitates the use of the PC & custom map!
Something that I now figure into the cost of every bike I buy.

twozzie · Jan 18th, 2012, 8:15 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akasam

What year hyper do you have?

The optimizer is a stand alone box that plugs in between the stock O2 censors and the ECU. It tricks the ECU into changing the AFR (Air Fuel Ratio) so that it is not set for emissions but instead drivability. The closed loop range is between 0-4000 RPMs.

If all you want to do is fix the drivability of the 0-4000 RPMs and make no other up grades, all you really need is the optimizer for the best result. You can only get them from people who bought a PCV and reflashed ( reprogrammed the bikes computer so there is no close loop section) the ECU.

Ah, this sounds more like my style. I did remap my Triumph using Tunemap with the cables and everything, pretty easy. When I looked at the Ducatidiag site though it all seems rather complex.

Thanks everyone for the inputs, today I became a little smarter thanks to you all

twozzie · Jan 19th, 2012, 9:56 am

All, I have an option to buy an Optimizer for an MTS, any idea if this would fit the Hyper?

Darsey · Jan 19th, 2012, 11:10 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccemn1

Today, I put a Power Commander and get a custom, Dyno tuned map done on every fuel injected bike I buy. I had a bad experience with my Aprilia several years ago that almost resulted in me selling it, I was so disillusioned & disstaisfied! A PC & custom map, took a turd & turned it into a GP Bike!
Most new bikes are mapped incredibly poorly in order to pass rigid EPA & polution Specs in every state & country.This just about nesessitates the use of the PC & custom map!
Something that I now figure into the cost of every bike I buy.

How much does a pc and a custom map usually cost.

Drinky · Jan 19th, 2012, 12:35 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by twozzie

Ah, this sounds more like my style. I did remap my Triumph using Tunemap with the cables and everything, pretty easy. When I looked at the Ducatidiag site though it all seems rather complex.

Thanks everyone for the inputs, today I became a little smarter thanks to you all

if you know how to use tunemap, then Ducatidiag should be a breeze. If you want to know more, just PM me, or I can place it here

Hazzbin · Jan 19th, 2012, 1:31 pm

I've never really experienced the surging with my Hyper. It's an '08 but I bought it used and it had a FatDuc on it when I got it. It was still a little touchy at very low rpm though.

When I put on the LV cat eliminator and slipon I also changed to the race ECU and did a valve adjustment and added the Ducshop stacks a couple of weeks later. At this point the bike will idle in first gear at 1250 rpm and pull away smoothly.

The moral of the story is that however you do it, FatDuc, new ECU or PC, get more fuel into it and it will run fine. These bikes do well slightly rich and horribly slightly lean.

I should add that once upon a time I had a boxer engine BMW which surged so badly that I had a passenger ask if we were running out of gas. One dealer refused to admit that there was any such thing as surging while another sent the output from the Motronic fuel injection system to BMW and I was able to eliminate most of the problem with their help.

Still not satisfied, I finally ended up setting valve openings and closings with a degree wheel instead of simply by clearance. This eliminated the surge in that particular bike completely.

Surging will always be a problem on these bikes for two reasons. First, emissions requirements leave them lean, especially at low speed. Second, you have to understand any high performance large capacity twin with a V or boxer configuration is, in essence, two single cylinder engines which share a common crank. Of course we're told that electronic fuel metering *should* take care of this....