Wow!

 

Can we all say "Hall of Wisdom"

Thanks, I'll be doing this over the winter!

 

Indeed! Moved!

KUDOS to a good write-up!

//amullo

 

Excellent. As an R/R meltdown victim, this is very interesting.

Thanks for the research.

 

?

So you have this on your bike now, DropLock,
and it is running/charging good?

 

Yes I have the FH120AA unit and so far it seems to be doing the job nicely.

I should really take the fairing off and run the bike for a bit to check out the radiant heat factor.

I'll try to do that over the next few days and will post back my findings.

 

Yes I have the FH120AA unit and so far it seems to be doing the job nicely.

I should really take the fairing off and run the bike for a bit to check out the radiant heat factor.

I'll try to do that over the next few days and will post back my findings.

I thought about what you mentioned about the radiant heat and I'm going to buy myself some temperature strips and see just high that area gets up to. Really like the idea of going for the remote location. Kind of reminds of the approach to locating aircraft component where commonsense sometimes wins & dictates location of equipment, especially electrical items.

 

From a Aprilia Caponord page Charging System | Moto-Abruzzo :

>>In fact, when out and about on all types of road from forest trail to motorway, the FH012AA operated at a consistent 42-43°C.<<



Two more quotes (forgot links, sorry!):

>>Be aware that such an upgrade will NOT provide more power for electrical accessories since the available power is limited by the output of the generator!!!<<

Pretty obvious when you think about it, but anyway.....



Even factorys seems to accept this as an uppgrade:

>>It looks like Triumph finally arrived late to the party, but the news is excellent - they are now supplying as Triumph OEM kit, FH012 R/R units as the latest warranty replacement on the Street Triples.<<

And a BIG THANK YOU f sharing this info w us, droplock!

 

-.

 

Ducati OEM REGOLATORE SHINDENGEN FH012CA 14.5V/50A (MOSFET) (54040301A) | ducati parts, ducati

Can`t find out which model it is for.

 

Ducati OEM REGOLATORE SHINDENGEN FH012CA 14.5V/50A (MOSFET) (54040301A) | ducati parts, ducati

Can`t find out which model it is for.

Looks interesting. Google has very little about it. Does say Ducati Performance, so maybe it's a legit upgrade.

That would be cool.

 

Just to clarify, this MOSFET (FH012AA) is not a recommended part from Ducati. I cottoned on to it after reading many different pages and posts at various different forums (Honda, Aprillia, Triumph and others) discussing swapping out the factory or standard SCR (shunt or series) type R/R for this or another MOSFET unit.

I replaced my original R/R with this particular unit because of its specifications as it adequately met the requirements necessary for my '97 model 748 (i.e. 14.5V and 40 to 50 amps whereas the original unit output was 35 amps). At this time I shouldn't expect info will come up if you search for it as a Ducati sanctioned replacement part because as far as I know it's not.

As a bit of a head start I included links to some relevant pages for those who'd like to know a little more before deciding either way on this as an option. It's clear that Yamaha have been using the 012 for some time now and perhaps other manufacturers are also switching to MOSFET type R/Rs simply because they are a more robust technology.

As for which particular mosfet unit would be most suited to other model Ducs you'd need to check the specs for the original Ducati unit on your bike and cross reference those with the specifications for each of the Shindengen MOSFET units. I know they make several different units however I have not done the research to marry them up. Chances are though that this FH012AA unit will perhaps even better serve more recent models since it is originally designed for a three phase system, not single phase like my bike but it does the job despite this.

Perhaps later model Ducs probably don't suffer as many R/R meltdowns as this era does so replacing the stock unit may be redundant although I do recall reading somewhere I think that some of the 1000's where the R/R was mounted under the seat were prone to overheating.

Perhaps other members out there, if they do identify a suitable mosfet unit for their model, will post the info to expand the relevance of this article to other Ducati models.


SE84.... thanks for that link, it appears there's a MOSFET unit available for some model/s Ducatis, but from that page I can't identify which. Perhaps Ducati are now using them. I note the unit is a FH012CA rather than AA.

What model Duc does this unit suit?.

 

It 50A when used on a 3-phase alternator, 1-phase it gets de-rated to 33A.

Tom

 

http://www.ducatiperformance.com/du...mance.com/ducati-oem-regolatore-shindengen-fh012ca-145v50a-mosfet-p-124607.html

F sure a disturbing link,
do Ducati already uppdated to the Shingen fh012 on nerwer models or what?

Are we doing this research in vain, due to an alrady solved problem?!?!

 

crozzer-
Thanks for that information. So the part number quoted at the site refers to 2010 Multistrada, I wonder if you had a chance to see a diagram of the unit. Better still maybe someone out there with that model could have a look at their stock unit and see if it has FH012CA printed on it. I know for sure the FH012AA is stamped. If so then I guess that would confirm Ducati are now installing MOSFET reg/recs on at least their Multistradas.

greenmonster-
I'm not sure why you see this as disturbing, if Ducati are now using MOSFETs it's probably a good thing. My original post of this article was as a suggested remedy for older Ducatis like mine which suffer from meltdown primarily due to inappropriately rated wire gauge and poor connectors exacerbated by insufficient air flow to help dissipate heat.

It may well be that Ducati have been using MOSFET units for some time now, I don't know. I don't even think that there were necessarily models post 1999 using SCR units which had a propensity for meltdown.

stlemans-
You bring up an interesting point, one which was mentioned to me when I was doing my research. I was getting conflicting information on this, and not be an electronics expert I put my concern about running a 3 phase R/R on a single phase alternator to an electronics forum. The word back seemed to be that it was safe. Upon that and due to time I went ahead and installed the MOSFET and it seems to be working fine so far.

If anyone can shed more light on the consequences of this de-rating it would be appreciated.

 

crozzer-
greenmonster-
I'm not sure why you see this as disturbing, if Ducati are now using MOSFETs it's probably a good thing. My original post of this article was as a suggested remedy for older Ducatis like mine which suffer from meltdown primarily due to inappropriately rated wire gauge and poor connectors exacerbated by insufficient air flow to help dissipate heat.

It may well be that Ducati have been using MOSFET units for some time now, I don't know. I don't even think that there were necessarily models post 1999 using SCR units which had a propensity for meltdown.

I agree.
And I don`t mean to degrade your research, most grateful.

 

If thew device if rated at 50A 3p, then each leg is averaging 17A.

When used to regulate 1p, only two legs are used, so it can nominally handle 34A rather than 50A.

Of course, 1p has much more ripple than 3p, so the peak currents will be higher and may stress the RR more.

But the ST2 is 420W, so 30A, and so should work fine with a 3p RR rated at 50A, but I'd be worried about using one rated for much less.

Tom

 

So if I understand this correctly then the FH012AA which is rated at 50A for a 3 phase system would be fine for your 450 watt system. The '97 era 748s are 350 watt and so don't generate quite as much heat as say a 450w would. I take on board the greater ripple and therefore peak currents but since the original unit is designed for 29A-30A this unit should be o.k. at a de-rated 34A?.

 

Yes, I would expect it to be fine.

Tom

 

Thanks stlemans I feel reassured.

Now lets hope there's some more info to come regarding specs on other Ducati model regulator rectifiers and whether Ducati are using mosfets across the range these days.

 

greenmonster - No problems, I didn't take it that way at all and you're welcome.

 

I talked to my dealer today.
Not a bad idea, is like checking tha manual sometimes.....

They nowadays sells 2 Shindengen units:
1 w 3 yellow wires & 1 w 2.
If I got it right on the 2 wire one:
Shindengen no SH579B
Duc sp part no 5404111C
130 Eu f that, 115 f 3wire.
2wire came in 2 versions: SS/M & 916/748, wiring differ.
No possibility f warning light on both IIIRC.

 

Yes Ducati has a Kit for 300 bucks and it is the SH579B.
Seems to be the old setup with larger guage wires.
So upgrade for 300 - not so much.

Saw this kit for the FHO12aa....150 bucks shipped
http://roadstercycle.com/Shindengen FH012AA Regulator upgrade kit.htm

I'm ordered it. Will be putting it on a 97 916 single phase with melted wires and connectors.

 

Going by that coding I'd hazard those R/R's are SCR type units, not MOSFETS.....

Yep, just checked it at shindengen website and the "SH" I think refers to "shunt". There are both "shunt" and "series" type SCR reg/recs which are bacically the "older" technology.......... and then there's the MOSFETS which if from shindengen should be FH***

 

Mailed my father, old car electrics mech, this thread.
This mod should work.

3 things he said:
1. This construction shuts charging down when all is getting the juice they need.
= no heat & magneto field down- little bit more power (less restricting crank rotation).
2. 2 leads mean more harmonic distortion than 3, unsure what it could disturb.
3. He asked why
http://www.shindengen.com/resources/content/1/1/1/1/documents/FH012 Data.pdf
had the fuse on + to battery instead of the loaded stuff?
I dunno, had no idea these reg/recs where so complicated.
Anyone?

 

Will do upgrade

I havent got any 110 % anwers to my maybe not so knowlegdeble questions
but I will go w the Shindengen FHO1200A on my 1phase 1991 907IE.

 

Deleted

 

From st2lemans:

>>If thew device if rated at 50A 3p, then each leg is averaging 17A.<<

>>When used to regulate 1p, only two legs are used, so it can nominally handle 34A rather than 50A.<<


From http://www.ducati-upnorth.com/tech/chargingfailure.php :

>>It's important to note here that, given the obvious need to charge the battery, the stator wires will have to pass 29 amps (350 watts/12 volts) continuously<<

So,
if 29A is the max capacity current that the Duc 1phase alternator can produce,
how many Ampere do you get when you only use 2 pins in the Shindengen FH 012?

I may be slow when it comes to electrics but I just wanna know & b sure.

 

From st2lemans:

>>If thew device if rated at 50A 3p, then each leg is averaging 17A.<<

>>When used to regulate 1p, only two legs are used, so it can nominally handle 34A rather than 50A.<<


From Charging System- Ducati Up North :

>>It's important to note here that, given the obvious need to charge the battery, the stator wires will have to pass 29 amps (350 watts/12 volts) continuously<<

So,
if 29A is the max capacity current that the Duc 1phase alternator can produce,
how many Ampere do you get when you only use 2 pins in the Shindengen FH 012?

I may be slow when it comes to electrics but I just wanna know & b sure.

29A

Tom

 

Great, thx.

If you use a smaller Shindengen FH 3phase, like a 30 or 40A one, you also get 29A when using only pins?
Or can a 30A only produce 10A per pin?

Just to b even surer....


>>Of course, 1p has much more ripple than 3p, so the peak currents will be higher and may stress the RR more.<<

Is that one of the reasons manufacturers went from 1 to 3phase, less ripple?

 

Further investigation leads to:
40/30A regs could only give 20/15A if using only 2 pins.
3phase gives less ripple.


EDIT:
>>40/30A regs could only give 20/15A if using only 2 pins.<<
WRONG, see below.

 

Further investigation leads to:
40/30A regs could only give 20/15A if using only 2 pins.

No, it's 2/3 the current, not 1/2, i.e. 27/20

3phase gives less ripple.

Yes.

Tom

 

>>No, it's 2/3 the current, not 1/2, i.e. 27/20<<

Yes, sorry, I meant that but came out wrong.