DMG/AMA the new model for superbike roadracing?

[rcrob]

Well it looks like Tye was wrong. It seems that The AMA/DMG knew what they were doing with their rules structure when they made a much closer to production superbike class and did not chase the World Superbike model. The BSB series today announced that they will be abandoning the World Superbike based rules and making their EVO class their superbike base mirroring the AMA's Superbike rules structure. Stuart Higgs, BSB series director, also states that they are considering adopting the AMA's parts homologation system. It looks like DMG/AMA may be ahead of the curve on this one and may once again be setting the standard for superbike racing. How long before World Superbike succumbs to the financial pressure and limits the technological arms race?

Starting In 2012: British Superbike Championship Will Abandon World Superbike Rules To Reduce Costs News Article // RoadracingWorld.com

[tye1138]

If you watch BSB, they've had the EVO class for a few years and recently, the top EVO riders have been able to keep pace with the full ex-factory machines. So they've done the testing and realize that the EVO mentality is the way to go. Plus and this is a BIG plus, BSB has no factory support. They haven't had factory support since 2008/2009 when everyone slowly started to pull out. Most of the riders on the BSB grid have day jobs and those who only race, barley make a living at it.

AMA didn't do any testing, they didn't warn anyone, they simply pulled the plug. Then they told the manufacturers to go screw at the same time. Then they put a rule book together where you have to buy aftermarket parts from only a hand-full of companies and they need to be "approved" parts. Then you have to buy into a single tire, the whole 9 yards.

BSB has been a single tire forever, its been WSBK rules forever, so knocking out the WSBK class is not going to really effect anything as everyone already has years worth of EVO data.

[rcrob]

...and here we are, following the AMA's lead. Who was right Tye?

[tye1138]

Originally Posted by rcrob

...and here we are, following the AMA's lead. Who was right Tye?

What the EVO class is going to do is run a single ECU for everyone, thats HUGE. They are allowing a lot of tuning rules, where the AMA doesn't allow really any.

So sure, there is some comparison between the two in the fact neither one will run superbike spec anymore, but thats where the line is drawn.

To say BSB is following the AMA's lead is correct. But only a lead, they decided to do something completely different then the AMA in the long run because the AMA is always wrong.

[rcrob]

A Tye, the Evo class has had "a class specified ECU" since 2010, its inception which eliminated TC and launch control.

Look at what the AMA allows for superbikes:
wheels can be changed, only one size allowed (only one wheel size is allowed in world superbikes as well).
Brakes can be changes as long as they are homologated.
Frames can be strengthened by adding gussets, so modified frames.
Suspension, you can use fork cartridge kits, but you have to use the stock fork bodies. Not everyone can afford to have multiple sets of $10k forks in the truck. For the price of one set of Ohlins trick forks a team can buy three sets of cartridges...
Rear shock can be changed as long as it is homologated, no more one offs.
Engine, you can port polish, you can change or modify valves, springs and retainers. Cams may be modified or replaced. You can degree or change duration but lift must remain as homologated and the list goes on Tye so not exactly superstock rules Tye.
Add to it that BSB is planning on following the AMA's homologated parts rules and you see where this is going...

[94CobraR]

Good luck getting him to ever say he's wrong. I remember him telling someone some incorrect facts about 748r models and I even proved it to him. Of course, he said I must have had an incorrect 748r and Falloon was wrong.


Sent from my Motorcycle iPhone app

[dburkland]

Interesting, just curious but does anybody have a list of all of the WSBK rules? I'd be curious to look into what they exactly allow

Nevermind, found it here

It'd be interesting to see a list of all the modifications Althea has made to the 1198 they race

[tye1138]

Originally Posted by rcrob

Tye, the Evo class has had "a class specified ECU" since 2010, its inception which eliminated TC and launch control.

I know that, the AMA does NOT do that, which means the EVO rules are NOT going to be AMA rules because if they were, they would allow any ECU to be run. The point I'm saying is, the single ECU rule is SO much better then anything the AMA could pull out of their ass.

Originally Posted by rcrob

Add to it that BSB is planning on following the AMA's homologated parts rules and you see where this is going...

Yes, they are "planning" but I bet you the list isn't as limited as the AMA's list.

Also, when it comes to suspension, they will be allowing higher end components then the AMA, which is very restrictive. One off components won't be used, but FGK gas charged forks and TTX shocks (off the counter WSBK spec stuff) will be legal. Good luck finding gas charged forks on the homologation list for AMA.

Basically, all the BSB wants to do is limit the amount of money each team can spend. World Superbike is going to follow suit for 2012 as well, which means both BSB and World Superbike will be (yet again) following the same rules. AMA will still be running its own rule system, different then everyone else, just like its been for decades.

My point and my only point, AMA sucks, period.

[rcrob]

Tye, your point and only point is that you are bitter. You are so bitter that you can't see past it. The AMA's rules are producing much better racing than World superbike and doing so at a much lower cost, period. That is why BSB is following the AMA's lead, because World Superbike isn't sustainable, AMA is.

[tye1138]

Originally Posted by rcrob

Tye, your point and only point is that you are bitter. You are so bitter that you can't see past it. The AMA's rules are producing much better racing than World superbike and doing so at a much lower cost, period. That is why BSB is following the AMA's lead, because World Superbike isn't sustainable, AMA is.

Yes I'm bitter because I get to work in and around the chaos that is the AMA, both in Roadracing and in Motocross and the people behind it are idiots. Case and point; "where is the riders meeting", nobody knows, nobody was told, no documentation was handed out to tell anyone. Case and point; "Ohh lets add another round to the series a month after its over and completely across the country and make it mandatory". I can go on all day quoting bullshit like that.

So you come out and give them "credit" for something and I tell you, they deserve no such credit. They arn't the ones that came up with the new rules, they adopted rules that John Ulrich and clan (kevin schwanz, etc...) promoted years ago. Its not the AMA who deserves ANY credit, if anyone you should be sending a letter to John Ulrich and thanking him.

Furthermore, AMA Roadracing is on its final string this year. No new deal for broadcasting rites for next year has been signed. The support given to riders this year is going to be reduced substantially for next year due to the severe economic issues plaguing the US manufacturers and distributors (who by the way I know many of).

Yes, AMA races in both Roadracing and Motocross are the most entertaining broadcasted on US TV. But see, thats the problem, people in America only know what's fed to them through the box on the wall, they are oblivious to anything else. I don't think the rules are what makes the racing awesome to watch, I think the riders are evenly matched in skill set. There is no "rising star" in AMA right now like there was with Ben Spies or Mat Mladin. Josh Hayes, Tommy Hayden and Blake Young wouldn't last 30 seconds on the world scene, they'd be back of the pack and none of them have european aspirations. Heck, look at poor John Hopkins in the last race, he was the quickest guy by a fair margin in qualifying, yet he couldn't do the pace in the race.