Comparing apples with apples

[damossguy]

After all the shit talk flying around here about peoples "opinions" on their favourite riders I thought it might be interesting to see just how valid the claims are that only 1 rider was ever capable of riding the Ducati GP bike.

Many like to compare apples to oranges or whatever makes them feel like they have won the argument. This is not intended to start another round of bitching and scratching, so if you're considering whipping out any childish retorts, just don't.

Interpret the numbers however you like, but if you've been comparing Stoner's performance last year on the Ducati to Rossi's this year, it's pretty obvious that the Duc is not currently a championship contender.

Ducati results comparison

2010

Championship points after 6 rounds

Stoner
51 points

Hayden
61 points

2011

Championship points after 6 rounds

Rossi
68 points

Hayden
60 points

BTW, I think Rossi and Stoner are both incredibly talented riders.

[IN2VWS]

......and more results after round 6 on the Ducati

2009
Stoner 106
Hayden 19

2008
Stoner 76
Melandri 24

2007
Stoner 115 (World Champion)
Capirossi 47

[Matt_P]

^Now correlate those numbers with the use of a steel frame and aluminum swingarm

[ZDM]

Originally Posted by Matt_P

^Now correlate those numbers with the use of a steel frame and aluminum swingarm

....great point....it's obvious that something was lost in the translation between steel and carbon fiber and or 1000cc configuration....that said, some very talented riders have not been able to even sniff the podium let alone win a riders championship on this GP bike in any configuration...credit to Stoner again. If I understand correctly the present 800cc Sedici is CF only. I wonder what the outcome would be in total performance regarding Steel trellis vs. carbon..Surely Ducati feels they have a better product w/ CF....but if it's anything like the quality of the Sedici GP replica CF....Ducati is in big trouble!

[DaC]

Originally Posted by ZDM

....great point....it's obvious that something was lost in the translation between steel and carbon fiber and or 1000cc configuration....that said, some very talented riders have not been able to even sniff the podium let alone win a riders championship on this GP bike in any configuration...credit to Stoner again. If I understand correctly the present 800cc Sedici is CF only. I wonder what the outcome would be in total performance regarding Steel trellis vs. carbon..Surely Ducati feels they have a better product w/ CF....but if it's anything like the quality of the Sedici GP replica CF....Ducati is in big trouble!

Well, look at the bright side. In the earlier years there was a large disparity between the two factory riders. It was feast or famine.

Now, in 2011, they are consistently *marginal*. Both riders seem to be disappointing to the same level.

Hopefully someone writes a book one day and we get the inside story on why Ducati seems to have flopped so badly.

[pba8634]

Another part of the equation is the tires. Bridgestone is constantly changing the tires, and at any given point, they may favor the Honda more than the Duc. I liked it better when they had choices.

[NSP]

Originally Posted by Matt_P

^Now correlate those numbers with the use of a steel frame and aluminum swingarm

^^and when Bridgestone still made prototype tires for Ducati, Kawasak, and Suzuki......

So much has changed since even 2007 when the 800cc class started it will be very hard to find out why they did great and why they are now doing poorly.

In 2007, Ducati took a big chance on Stoner (only 1 year in MotoGP on a Honda RC211V) and the field... they did not play it conservative in the begining while Yamaha and Honda, IMO, were testing the waters for the fisrt half of that season.

Yamaha and Honda improved on what they knew and what they were racing. Ducati changed what they were racing and when in a direction they did not know...so far that gamble has not paid off.

Maybe if the rules did not change so much from year to year, the carbon frame would be better right now.....but whn you throw in spec tire rules, tire limit rules, engine limit rules, and a new displacement class all within 3 years (2009-2011) it would be hard to really focus on one project and make it great like a CF frame. Now factor in only Stoner until this season was with Ducati through the transition from a steel frame to the current bike...Melandri, one season and gone, Hayden came into the CF era with nothing to compare to other than a Honda, and now Rossi first time on CF and a V4 with the challange to end world hunger, create world peace, make a title winning Desmosedici!!

Look at the 500cc days, rules changed very little and smaller teams with enough tuning and data with their tire supplier could get close to the factory teams and supermen riders....now the rules change every year and the aliens are more out of this world every year.

GP is getting too advanced based on the rules/limits they impose IMO. They are changing the rules to "save money" but how much have these rules cost the sport??

[Matt_P]

^IMO they should bring back multiple tire manufacturers and the 990cc formula.

Message to Dorna: Just say sorry and tell everyone to bring back their old bikes from 2006!

[NSP]

^^ I agree....and give the 25 litres they first had when the 990cc class started.

and we can have more of this awesome action!!

YouTube - ‪Motorbike Drifts, Powerslides and Stuff - MotoGp Superbike sliding etc‬‏

YouTube - ‪Motorbike Drifts, Powerslides and Stuff - MotoGp Superbike sliding etc‬‏

Kiyonari was a beast during that wet race a few years ago!!

[rcrob]

From motomatters:

'"The biggest surprise for me this year has been Nicky," Stoner told reporters. "It seems like he was waiting for Valentino to come along and fix the bike and make it better for him to ride," Stoner explained, "but if Nicky just concentrated and rode like he did last year, he'd be having much better results than what he's had so far."'

Ummm he has had essentially the same results as last year against a field with much improved bikes, so.....