Tank spreading in Europe / Germany - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
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post #1 of 106 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2010, 3:59 am Thread Starter
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Tank spreading in Europe / Germany

After being "offline" for a while (both forum-wise and bike-wise), I discovered some weeks ago that the tank on my GT had spread by approx 2cm between the rubber pads. It all happened during this last season. I had no problems until now. Yesterday I received the confirmation by Ducati Germany that they accept to replace the tank. It all went too smooth to be true ... I had a felling that the deal was some sort of "no questions asked - no questions answered". As long as I get a fitting tank, that's OK for me!

I am not sure why the tank spreading took so long to manifest, but maybe it's because of the lower ethanol content in gasoline over here in Europe. As far as I know, the maximum allowed ethanol content is of 5%. This will btw change in the near future due to a European directive (Directive 2009/30/EC of 23 April 2009 for those of you who are interested), which dictates to increase the ethanol content up to 10%.

An other interesting thing I discovered in the last few days is that the Monster models suffer from this problem since 2005, when the metal tank was replaced by the same material as on our SCs. An interesting read is the forum thread at DMC: Plastic Tank problems: Sign up list (UPDATED 11-Oct-10, see #1 post)
This was unknown to my local dealer, although the mechanic told me he knew something was fishy as many Monster tanks seem to him to be so soft to be deformed by hand!

So now´s the right time to go over to the tank spreading poll and shift my vote from "no" (as of last year) to "yes".

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post #2 of 106 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2010, 5:16 am
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As far as i know, ethanol used in fuel is less aggressive than the gasoline itself…

So maybe it is the sort of plastic they were using at Acerbis that leads to this problem.
In fact Acerbis is producing lots of tanks for several companies and should know what they do…
http://www.acerbis.it/moto/index.php

Interesting movie…

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Last edited by poolagent; Oct 14th, 2010 at 5:23 am.
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post #3 of 106 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2010, 5:38 am Thread Starter
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I think the issue is not really about ethanol being more or less aggressive.

As far as I understand, it _may_ be the fact that ethanol is hydrophile (i.e. "loves" water), through water vapour in the air the dissolved ethanol binds the water, which can then be absorbed by the plastic in the tank. This will lead to an increase of volume of the plastic ... swelling ... spreading. For those who can read german, here's an other interesting summary from ADAC on E10. So far, the gasoline sold in Germany respects certain standards, see: RACSYSRACSYS

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post #4 of 106 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2010, 6:25 am
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I have a spare tank to sell in sweden.

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post #5 of 106 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2010, 6:27 am
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PEHD floats on water and the maximum water pick up is 0,1%, its density is <1 g/cm³ and it is resistant against alcohol…

So why should it react?

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post #6 of 106 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2010, 8:49 am
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Propaganda

Quote:
Originally Posted by poolagent View Post
As far as i know, ethanol used in fuel is less aggressive than the gasoline itself…

So maybe it is the sort of plastic they were using at Acerbis that leads to this problem.
In fact Acerbis is producing lots of tanks for several companies and should know what they do…
Acerbis

Interesting movie… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-MNQFlRilE
So these guys run 100k miles and tear the engine down finding it nice and clean. No mention of the rubber o-rings or plastic parts on the car. All I know is that I ran only 4000 miles on my bike before E-10 destroyed my gas tank. Now in the US our government is going to E-15 but only for vehicles 2007 or newer. How is that going to work at the pump?

I'd be in favor of a selector button that gave me the choice of E-Zero at a higher price. Let the great masses of uninformed save some pennies per gallon in exchange for hundreds of dollars in repairs later.

What a scam. And if you say I'm against saving the planet, bite me. It's arrogant to think we can save or destroy it by turning corn into crappy fuel.

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post #7 of 106 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2010, 10:50 am
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When I saw the subject line of this post I first thought, wait, how can that be if they don't use ethanol in Europe. Then read about the 5% being added. Nuff said. How can these non-ethanol receptive tanks continue to be made and sold? I will not buy another bike with a plastic tank.

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post #8 of 106 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2010, 11:17 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyvito View Post
So these guys run 100k miles and tear the engine down finding it nice and clean. No mention of the rubber o-rings or plastic parts on the car. All I know is that I ran only 4000 miles on my bike before E-10 destroyed my gas tank. [B]Now in the US our government is going to E-15 but only for vehicles 2007 or newer. How is that going to work at the pump?
How indeed??

I spend some time hanging out at a Porsche Cayman website. One Cayman owner was low on fuel and the only thing that he could find was 15% ethanol. His car is suffering now . . . and Porsche is saying, "Sorry, our engines aren't built for 15% ethanol."

Big corn growers are going to ruin us.

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post #9 of 106 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2010, 11:59 am
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Simone,
are you saying that all fuel in germany currently has already an ethanol content
and that the maximum permissible percentage will increase ? I have noted that some stations have a pump which is marked as having an ethanol content but only at some of the bigger stations. One does not know however that the lack of a warning means that the fuel has no ethanol content. If you ask an attendant they have no idea what they are selling its either diesel or petrol.
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post #10 of 106 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2010, 12:36 pm Thread Starter
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@crm114: that's correct! To be more specific, everything up to 5% of ethanol is considered and named petrol/gasoline/Benzin/Super/etc. It doens't mean that the gasoline _has_ to have an ethanol content of 5%, but everything _up to_ 5% is allowed. If the ethanol content is higher than 5% it has to be mentioned, for example E85.
I have asked the attendants of all major and minor petrol stations in my area for information about ethanol content. Many of them had _no clue_ what I was talking about. Some told me that yes, there is ethanol in their product albeit thay did not know how much. Only one attendant had enough time to phone some central office while I was there and she only confirmed that their gasoline "fullfills all regulations". The answer came in a rather crude tone after her dialog partner on the phone wanted to know who I am, for whom I work and why I want to know

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