Tank spreading in Europe / Germany - Page 5 - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
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post #41 of 106 (permalink) Old Oct 18th, 2010, 9:59 am
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Another tank spreading theory

I believe that two factors come in to play in the problem of tank spreading. The fuel softens the plastic, and it's the amount and the weight of the fuel that causes the actual deformation.

A gallon of gas weighs (IIRC) about 6.5 lbs, so 3.3 gallons would weigh about 21.5 lbs. So, most bikes will sit fully fueled when parked with the fuel softening the tank's plastic. Could the weight of the tank then be partially to blame for pulling it out of shape?

When the problem with tank spreading first came to light, I decided to test the theory above, with admittedly a small population sample: my GT. All it took was a small change in habit patterns.

My bike went into winter storage at the end of last year (as it does each year) with the fuel low light on. It sat for months with a nearly empty tank. I also gas up at the beginning of a ride, not after, so the bike is always parked with the tank nearly empty.

I'm not stopping for gas any more often than I did. Our group rides usually start at a gas station anyway.

Even if my weight theory is all wet, there's still less fuel in the tank when the bike is parked to react with the plastic of the tank.

My 2007 GT has no tank deformation; the tank is still tight in the mounts. Proof? Hardly, but you decide.

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post #42 of 106 (permalink) Old Oct 18th, 2010, 11:07 am
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This commercial brought to you by the Ethanol Cartel of America....

Of course the other benefit is that ethanol competes with corn used for feed and food stuffs, so we now pay more for food -- aren't you excited? We're paying for "premium" food. What was once a staple is now Bling Bling Corn Flakes!!!

Brought to you by the United States Congress and the Office of the President,
wholly-owned subsidiaries of the Ethanol Cartel of America.
I cringed when I watched that video. But the biggest dumbass moment was when the presenter was holding the catalytic converter that had been cut in half. He says something to the effect of "If we looked at a new one it probably wouldn't look any better," neglecting the fact that the device works by chemical processes and could look clean, but have it's abilities reduced to zero by the ethanol.

I'm not saying either way if ethanol would destroy the converter, but the level of hucksterism and pseudo-science is just astounding.


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post #43 of 106 (permalink) Old Oct 18th, 2010, 12:05 pm
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You almost expect Algore to pop in and tell us that the science on the benefits of Cornahol is proven.

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post #44 of 106 (permalink) Old Oct 18th, 2010, 12:41 pm
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Originally Posted by Grunbay View Post
I have a 2002 Triumph Speed Triple with 19K miles and a rotomolded plastic fuel tank. No deformation problems. It is fueled from the same sources as my Paul Smart 1000, which has bulging-tank syndrome.

This tells me it is possible to formulate an ethanol-tolerant polymer and make durable fuel tanks with it. But Ducati/Acerbis didn't do it.

Minister

I have a 2002 Triumph Sprint ST (I bought new with 200 miles on it) with 56k miles and a tank that is so deformed the bolts won't line up even though the rear mounting tabs are slotted front to back right from the factory. I have also seen other plastic tank Sprint ST and RS models with the same issue of varying severity. Why do you think Triumph switched back to metal tanks?
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post #45 of 106 (permalink) Old Oct 18th, 2010, 2:37 pm
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We have talked about this before and apparently the answer is "no". So far nobody has been hurt and nobody is out any money because Ducati is giving new tanks to people who ask. If we try to trade/sell our bikes and can prove that we somehow suffer a loss because of the tank issues then maybe we would have a class action lawsuit . . . but it would be very hard to prove. If a fuel tank falls off and causes an injury or death . . . or if a leaking tank caused a house fire . . . then maybe the government would get involved.

If we cannot sue, let's sign petition and send to Ducati. With enough signatures we'll generate attention ! And if Ducati ignores it, then we can send it to other motorcycle manufactures and they will be glad to take it to media if needed. Ignoring this problem simply is NOT right.

Any ideas, anyone ?!?


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post #46 of 106 (permalink) Old Oct 18th, 2010, 2:51 pm
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i think tackling Ducati head-on is a non starter, better to head 'em off at the pass, and (if stiles claim is correct) approach manufacturers like Triumph and determine why they moved from plastic to metal in order to assemble facts that can be presented as opposed to hunches.
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post #47 of 106 (permalink) Old Oct 18th, 2010, 4:01 pm
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"If we looked at a new one it probably wouldn't look any better," neglecting the fact that the device works by chemical processes and could look clean, but have it's abilities reduced to zero by the ethanol.
Ethanol has no effect on cats, neither positive nor negative.

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post #48 of 106 (permalink) Old Oct 18th, 2010, 4:19 pm
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Tom you are correct. As I look for info the pro ethanol groups tout that increasing ethanol has no effect on the portion of the vehicle that EPA regulates therefore EPA is more than eager to follow the political dictates (lobby influenced) and jack up the percentage. Unfortunately EPA has no interest or responsibility in the other parts of the vehicle affected by deathanol.

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post #49 of 106 (permalink) Old Oct 18th, 2010, 4:33 pm
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Originally Posted by crm114 View Post
i think tackling Ducati head-on is a non starter, better to head 'em off at the pass, and (if stiles claim is correct) approach manufacturers like Triumph and determine why they moved from plastic to metal in order to assemble facts that can be presented as opposed to hunches.
OK, so how do we do this, short of picking up the phone set, calling 1-800-Triumph and asking why did you switch from plastic to metal.
Even if CEO of Triumph logs in to ducati.ms forum and states that metal tank does not expand as plastic, what then ? We still have to move Ducati to some kind of action and only two I can see :

1. Extending limited to lifetime warranty
2. Designing metal or some kind of other plastic tank to replace this one

Honestly, who cares WHY these tanks are spreading like peanut butter. I am not scientist, I just want or ride, that’s all. This product is defective and it is obvious.
Some big companies move to action only if hurts the bottom line. Anything less is waste of time. Petition with couple of thousand signatures from angry customers will hurt them on future buys. Anybody who makes decisions at Ducati Inc. will pay attention to that.

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post #50 of 106 (permalink) Old Oct 18th, 2010, 4:40 pm
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Personally, what I'd do if I wanted to really squeeze Ducati is to buy the ETI tank and then have my lawyer draft a letter to get Ducati to pay for the tank, painting and trouble.

I might not get anything out of it, but how would that be any different than just buying the ETI tank to fix the problem 100% anyway. At least I might get something out of it. And my lawyer would too, unfortunately.


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