Tanks - solutions-alternatives-r&d - Ducati.ms

muzzmann · Jan 15th, 2012, 11:36 pm

** I request no reference here to Mr. Puri's thread on Alum tanks**

I start this thread with an eye to an open discussion on developing a solution to the Ducati tank problem. It is obvious something has to happen soon or there may be a lot of Ducatis parked over the next 5 years.

A fresh approach may be the answer.

As many of you know I have developed several products from scratch for my own projects. I am currently working on getting one done here locally. Here is my post\progress report in that regard from another thread :

I am pursuing the design and production of a metal tank here in Canada. If feasable I have suggested to JC he take on the product. He is honest,hard working and knowledgable (as you all know). The perfect guy for the job. We'll see where it goes. Anyhow....I had initial consultations with cnc & fab guys (including a manufacturer of alloy marine tanks) and have sent off a PS tank to a friend to be 3D scanned. This will be followed by a SC tank I have to retreive from back east end of Feb. I presently dont have access to a GT or Sport 1000 tank. The image will be transferred to Solidworks. Once done I will have a sit down with my associates in cnc, sheet metal forming and fabricating to brainstorm with CAD guru as to a construction plan. From there I will cost it out. AS mentioned before I can't promise we will get to a prototype but I do promise to make the effort. My profession keeps me pretty busy as do my ongoing projects so its time as I am able.

I have been doing some research and consultation over the past month and "steel" keeps coming to mind. I had this discussion with another member today and he reminds me of something I am very aware. Alloy is not for everyone. He is right. Alloy is very maleable. Everyday use (tank bags, parking lot mishaps, items falling off the garage shelf etc will result in dings that are unrepairable.

I will be installing one of Evan Wilcox' tank & tailpieces on my next SC project (show) bike but you can be guaranteed it will see very limited and sheltered use.

http://www.wilcoxmetal.com/italian.htm

You Tube

You Tube

The ETI solution also seems well worth looking at. If their product claims of being completely unaffected by race gas or ethanol are accurate and they have a decent track record I would say they are a heck of a bargain @ of $1500(usd). You would be hard-pressed to get a decent alloy replacement at this price.

http://www.eti-fuelcel.com/

The guys at Beater in Japan make a killer product - I emailed them a week ago but no answer as yet.....

http://www.moto-works.jp/beater/index.html

Just for fun Jesse at work ...wrong bikes but a talented boy !

You Tube

You Tube

I have also, believe it or not, been kicking the idea of stainless steel about . I have seen it used in fuel tanks before . Due to its high strength and elasticity you can use much much thinner material

Downside - heavier than alum . 30 to 40% higher material cost

Upside : it is stronger so you can use thinner ga material for project so you save some weight - it welds up neat as a pin - waay stronger than alum - polishes up to a mirror finish - .

Get a load of this guy in Scotland !

http://www.thetankshop.com/

However I dont think I see stainless flying for these tanks....but you never know....

Feel free to sling ideas, resources , suggestions of any sort....

Taking on design and production of a tank is no small task . However it can be done. Bottom line will be $$.

So tell me . If someone came up with a bolt - on replacement how much are you willing to pay? Your top dollar be it steel, alloy or composite ??

Stephano

**egrafx2006** · Jan 16th, 2012, 12:06 am

Kookz · Jan 16th, 2012, 12:32 am

I wouldn't pay a dollar over the ETI cell, but I really think the issue is not worth the money of even the ETI tank on these bike. A very expanded tank can still be secured to the bike for ~$20 in brackets, so I just don't see myself ever bothering to replace it at almost $2000 with paint for what is in the end a cosmetic issue.

bosh · Jan 16th, 2012, 1:30 am

Interesting.
One of the main reasons I bought my Ducati Sport 1000 is because of its aesthetics.
If I was looking for just performance regardless of how the bike looked... well, I wouldn't be riding a Ducati and most certainly not a Sport Classic. Living with brackets, warping & dimpling is not an option for me.

That being said, I don't think I'd pay over $2K for a complete and painted tank either. I'll probably end up getting one of the ETI fuel cells at some point.

I do think there is a market for a high end metal tank though. There are plenty of guys with money to burn. Wish I was one of them

poolagent · Jan 16th, 2012, 3:21 am

Today i contacted Mr. Guhr from Guhr Rennsporttechnik…

He builds professional racing tanks…

RMS - Reinhard Guhr Rennsporttechnik - RMS - RENNSPORTTECHNIK - RMS Tanks

He is interested in making a calculation for building a small series of SC tanks out of 6082 AC corrosion resistant aluminum.

In the first stage i sent him pics of the various models and stated some facts…

If possible use of the OEM tank cap
Venting as OEM
TUV certificate

LondonDutch · Jan 16th, 2012, 5:14 am

I have a stupid question - but I'm not afraid to ask it...

What about this new technology of Additive 3D Printing? I've seen some amazing articles on the creation of very complex objects from 3D designs, and I've even seen a working race-bearing made with one, as a demo.

I'm not sure what materials are used to create each object (some kind of plastic - would it be ethanol resistant anyway?) - but I wonder if they are strong enough to either create a tank, or at least create the tooling/mold for one.

Feel free to tell me this is a crap direction to investigate.

LondonDutch · Jan 16th, 2012, 5:29 am

Just spoke to the main man at The Tank Shop, Aluminium Petrol Tanks For Motor Bikes in Scotland and he has already successfully produced a one-off SC tank, and plans to put them into production "soon", but with a current back-order of 60 tanks to build he says they won't be "in production" (i.e. 6 weeks from ordering to completion) until the end of the year, October/November 2012.

He seems very keen and knowledgeable about the bikes, understanding venting issues and the fuel pump flange/connection, and his prices will be around £600, which is currently about US $920 at the moment, so it's a pretty good price.

Unfortunately he is not that interested in forums, websites, or even answering the phone, and didn't want to take my details or anyone else's in connection with a group order - or even free promotion, on this website or thebikeshed, so the only way to keep track of his progress is to keep checking his homepage once a month.

When the tanks are "in production" they will be shown on the homepage. Apparently. ...I've added a permanent link to his website in the footer of the BikeShed website, so find him easily on there.

arbakken · Jan 16th, 2012, 9:43 am

I'm not interested at all in a tank that isn't made of metal. I already have one of those, and while I'm not terribly concerned about the spreading thing (mine spread, I fixed it, and now I'm going to coat it), it just feels so cheap.

If I got an alloy tank, I have a feeling it would be polished. Probably with a matte (soda blasted?) racing stripe.

If I got a steel tank, it would be painted like stock.

Either way, if I am going to replace the tank, it would both have to be metal AND give me more clearance for my knees. I paid $5000 for my bike, and I would be much more likely to sell it than pay more than $1400 for a tank.

Were you looking for a stamped solution, or a handbuilt solution?

muzzmann · Jan 16th, 2012, 10:47 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by poolagent

Today i contacted Mr. Guhr from Guhr Rennsporttechnik…

He builds professional racing tanks…

RMS - Reinhard Guhr Rennsporttechnik - RMS - RENNSPORTTECHNIK - RMS Tanks

He is interested in making a calculation for building a small series of SC tanks out of 6082 AC corrosion resistant aluminum.

In the first stage i sent him pics of the various models and stated some facts…

If possible use of the OEM tank cap
Venting as OEM
TUV certificate

Good job PA! Keep us posted ! If there is anything I can do to help let me know .

His stuff is excellent !! Check it out guys !

RMS - Reinhard Guhr Rennsporttechnik - RMS - RENNSPORTTECHNIK - RMS Tanks/PICT7969

Stephano

muzzmann · Jan 16th, 2012, 11:47 am

Dutch

I have printed pieces before as part of r&d on a few projects. Specifically manifolds and sprocket cover. Both plastic. I have heard of it being done from other materials but dont know much else about it.

Anything is worth looking into .....

Stephano

Quote:

Originally Posted by LondonDutch

I have a stupid question - but I'm not afraid to ask it...

What about this new technology of Additive 3D Printing? I've seen some amazing articles on the creation of very complex objects from 3D designs, and I've even seen a working race-bearing made with one, as a demo.

I'm not sure what materials are used to create each object (some kind of plastic - would it be ethanol resistant anyway?) - but I wonder if they are strong enough to either create a tank, or at least create the tooling/mold for one.

Feel free to tell me this is a crap direction to investigate.