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Old Oct 30th, 2011, 12:35 am   #1 (permalink)
Old Cafe Racer in Northern Oz
 
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Grabby, shreiking, clutch and how I cured it

Like a lot of others here since I bought the 748 a couple of years ago the clutch has misbehaved when hot.
Not a lot of fun when it lurches foward, shreiks then either stalls or wheelies at the lights.

Since I've had this 748, the clutch has been a problem.
The original was grabby, graunchy & noisy.
I replaced the stock plates with sintered ones & it was still the same, if not worse.
Then I put the Sureflex one in and it was absolutely beautiful until a couple of weeks ago when it started the slip.. .grab... shreik... stall thing.
I removed it, did the plate shuffle, polished the steels and replaced it... no better.

Yesterday I couldn't get the bastard up the ramp,.... shreik... grab......stall... slide backward down the ramp with the front wheel skidding.
The ramp up to my bike house is 1 metre wide, 4 metres long and is 1 in 3 slope with no side rails, a very scary place to be with a misbehaving clutch.
You can't simply ride up it as there is only an inch clearance each side from the door frame to the mirrors at the top, it's clutch & brake every inch of the way.

So, today I did something I read about a while ago on here... I removed the pack, brushed black lithium grease on a set of spare plates, hit them with a heat gun till they were around 120*C
Then I cleaned the excess grease off & reinstalled things.
I thought long and hard about this first as grease would seem death to clutch plates? but wait! what about oil bath clutches? do they slip? No they don't. So petroleum based lubricant shouldn't be a problem as long as it has no friction modifiers in it.
Any way I took her out for a run today, ambient around 34*C, and the clutch seemed very smooth, especially on down shifts.
I ran her up to 8000 rpm in sixth gear & went WOT to try & make it slip... next thing I'm doing 200kph with a big grin from ear to ear and no sign of slip.

I rode 40 fast miles to get some heat into things then took it home & rode very slowly up the ramp slipping the clutch all the way.
I had complete control over that clutch, smooth as butter.
So.. it's black lithium grease for me from now on

So from me to Vij & Tom Tom "A very solid thank you"
Tom reckons it lasts him a season on his plates.
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Grabby, shreiking, clutch and how I cured it-p1040951.jpg  
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Last edited by davy.j; Oct 30th, 2011 at 10:38 am.
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Old Oct 30th, 2011, 5:21 am   #2 (permalink)
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Thanks for this post! How many plates did you grease? Could you post a link to the thread were you found your info? I also would like to know where you bought the black lithium grease.
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Old Oct 30th, 2011, 7:38 am   #3 (permalink)
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I once accidentally cleaned my clutch plates with WD40 instead of brake cleaner by grabbing the wrong can. As I was in a hurry I blew it out with the airline and then used brake cleaner but I certainly didn't get it all out - didn't feel any different afterwards.

However I had an oil leak from the oil seal in the pushrod shaft and that caused clutch slip even though it wasn't much oil.
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Old Oct 30th, 2011, 10:40 am   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennie View Post
Thanks for this post! How many plates did you grease? Could you post a link to the thread were you found your info? I also would like to know where you bought the black lithium grease.
Here you go: Grauncing noise from Clutch

I greased all the friction plates.
The grease came from the local auto outlet.

.
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davy
Where there's smoke....... there's a Mito

2000 748 55800km/now 853 64412 km

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/3...s_fairings.jpg

2007 Cagiva Mito 125cc 2 smoke
http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/3...0/original.jpg

1967/73 Triumph Daytona T100R Cafe Racer project bike ( finished)
http://www.triumphrat.net/members-re...ml#post2170145
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Old Oct 30th, 2011, 10:51 am   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeDesmo View Post
I once accidentally cleaned my clutch plates with WD40 instead of brake cleaner by grabbing the wrong can. As I was in a hurry I blew it out with the airline and then used brake cleaner but I certainly didn't get it all out - didn't feel any different afterwards.

However I had an oil leak from the oil seal in the pushrod shaft and that caused clutch slip even though it wasn't much oil.
Most (non Duc) bikes run wet clutches in engine oil but if you have a friction modified oil in there the clutch will slip.
From memory MA is the type for engine/gearbox/wet clutch, and the other MB type isn't as it has friction modifiers that cause clutch slip.
I use 300v which is MA type anyway so a leak into the clutch housing shouldn't cause any slip.

I don't know much about lithium grease even though I've read the mds sheet, just that it didn't make the clutch slip and made it smooth as.
The difference between white & black lithium seems to be the white was developed for the automotive industry for locks and latches so had to befined to remove the carbon etc so it doesn't stain clothing.
Black was locally available so I used that.
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Where there's smoke....... there's a Mito

2000 748 55800km/now 853 64412 km

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/3...s_fairings.jpg

2007 Cagiva Mito 125cc 2 smoke
http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/3...0/original.jpg

1967/73 Triumph Daytona T100R Cafe Racer project bike ( finished)
http://www.triumphrat.net/members-re...ml#post2170145

Last edited by davy.j; Oct 30th, 2011 at 10:58 am.
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Old Oct 31st, 2011, 4:39 am   #6 (permalink)
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1$ fix for a super annoying problem, isnt that just sweet
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Old Oct 31st, 2011, 5:27 am   #7 (permalink)
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Presumably the clutch dust tends to stick to the grease rather than getting blown out of the housing, making some sort of black paste?
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Old Oct 31st, 2011, 6:17 am   #8 (permalink)
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There is no grease left when youre done, the grease in this schmere dissapears real quick and its whats left that does the trick. After youre done the friction discs looks just like any other friction discs.

And no I dont know whats left that makes it work, I just know its the best working solution I've tried so far.
I do it to all my clutches even prior to any problems because of the accurate starts you can do from the enhanced feel.
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Last edited by TomTom; Oct 31st, 2011 at 7:01 am.
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Old Oct 31st, 2011, 7:58 am   #9 (permalink)
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Just had to do it...I pulled it apart again for a look today.,
I have always flattened the steel plates on glass & wet & dry, but the frictions are only about 13 thou thick so I've always left them alone.
Once the grease has been run on them you can see the peaks are shiny with polished grease and it fills the valleys.
I'm guessing it stops the peaks grabbing by keeping them lubricated with grease from the valleys when the pressure is applied till the whole face is smoothly engaged.

So while I was in there and seeing as lithium grease isn't a problem for the plates I smeared the springs with it as well.
The little squeeky noise when the lever is pulled with the motor off is gone and the lever pull is very smooth, smooth as the one on my oil bath Mito clutch.

Thanks again Tom
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Where there's smoke....... there's a Mito

2000 748 55800km/now 853 64412 km

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/3...s_fairings.jpg

2007 Cagiva Mito 125cc 2 smoke
http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/3...0/original.jpg

1967/73 Triumph Daytona T100R Cafe Racer project bike ( finished)
http://www.triumphrat.net/members-re...ml#post2170145
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Old Oct 31st, 2011, 9:39 am   #10 (permalink)
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davy-j

And I have to thank you for your various tests and solutions over the years. I've used your solution to relocating the desmoquatro fuel filter and downloaded your "one year report" on the 748. Thanks!

In this instance, it's great to know that the Swedish lithium clutch bath works for the rest of us outside of Scandinavia. Sounds great.

Ron
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