Dealer wont offer solution to pad or -disc issue = vibrations under braking - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old May 16th, 2017, 12:25 pm Thread Starter
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Thumbs down Dealer wont offer solution to pad or -disc issue = vibrations under braking

Okay, I've had it with my dealer!

This sunday I went for a trip to the seaside to relax and visit some mates.
When I returned I was enjoying the Multi on the highway.

But all of a sudden, this never happened before, I experienced vibration under hard braking!
Not a reliable feeling tbh....

Than I did some research on the net and found out it could be just dirty pads, worn pads, or even warped discs....

Than I investigated my pads and to my HUGE surprise, they left this on the bike!!!



As you can see, one side is kinda okay, but the other side is really worn!
Not only don't I understand why they didnt change the pads for safety matters, but also, they were obliged to do so according to the rules of granting Ducati Approved guarantee.
This is something new from begin this month, offered only in certain EU countries btw, so dont pannic if you didnt hear about this before

The site is in Dutch, but I'll translate: Ducati Approved - Erkende tweedehands Ducati motoren
There is a 35 point checklist to wich the bike has to pass or adjusted and than they can grand extended warranty to second hand Ducati's.
Point 16 & 17 & 25 & 26 deal about the brakes. (pads, torque settings, function, etc)
Point 17 states discs and pads have to be checked on worn (70%).

Yesterday I went a step further, or rather drastic?
I removed the brakepads to look at them up close...
In the process, I damaged my rims with some scratches...very very idiotic of me.
(I have a torque wrench, + service manual, so dont worry, its all bolted up to spec again)

But these are the results:



Tell me those pads are at 70% capacity

I immediately send him a very long email, and got this answer, with a picture of a new pad:
"Your brakes are not worn, these new ones are not much thicker than that you know.
It could be that there's a bit of play on the ballhead or like you say the discs but that would be weird to happen all of a sudden.
"


That is a litteraly translation from Dutch to English...
He also did not mention about my Guarantee request, wich was applied a month ago even before I got the bike...


So, I am fed up with this and I am gonna talk to another dealer, because if you get such a respons, they can kiss my ass tbh!

So today I rode the bike, but too shortly and not on the freeway, so different circumstances.
But I had the impression the cleaning helped a bit, but still felt some fibrations.
I can't believe its due to warped discs, but just uneven wear on pads leftside-rightside thats causing my vibrations under hard braking only.

Any thoughts about this?

Tomorrow I am gonna buy myself a micrometer to check the discs, just to be sure.

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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old May 16th, 2017, 4:27 pm
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I have pulsing brakes on my Multi E-riko, but only as I'm coming slowly to a stop. occasionally i strip out the pads, clean them up on a sheet of wet an dry sand paper, lightly sand the discs with the same wet & dry, then clean with brake cleaner, this helps remove the pulsing for around 3000Ks but it dose return as the discs get a build up of pad material, i also switched to a different make of pads, not Brembo. Vesrah much better pad.now remember to give your discs a very good clean when changing pads. Hey also a tip after removing pads or the front wheel, when refitting the callipers, do the caliper bolts up only finger tight, pump the brakes quite a few times, and bounce the front suspension a few times, now with your brake leaver pulled in tight-pads locked to the discs, tighten your calliper bolts. this helps line everything up.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old May 16th, 2017, 4:54 pm Thread Starter
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jeps, I just heard of this typical characteristic
Nothing at all at low - stop speed.

So I've hopes my discs aren't warped...

The vibrations i felt under specific circumstances as described must've come from uneven wear on the pads me thinks...
Hope to do some highway riding tomorrow and confirm the difference I felt today of lessened vibrations.


Thx for the tips btw!!

The info you get on boards these days is second to none compared to the specialist know-how of some dealers it seems

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old May 16th, 2017, 7:04 pm
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As far as wear is concerned, there is no substitution for a measurement. The pads should not be run past the factory minimum as the pistons can become askew in the cylinder bores. As far as asymmetrical wear is concerned, the limits of caliper and/or rotor movement designed into the system to keep the rotor centered must not be exceeded.

Some manufacturers warn against reversing the pad but it is typically done in systems that have asymmetrical wear to balance pad wear, often mid day on track days.

Rotor warp is easily detected without a maximum braking effort, especially at slow speeds when the frequency is more noticeable.

Boiling brake fluid can cause pulsing. If you have accumulated a lot of water in the system, it will release gas under heavy braking and create a compressible mixture. I'd go there first in your case.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2017, 4:29 am
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If your lever isn't getting soft its not the rotors.

What would be more likely is you are having a bedding issue, stopping and clamping the front brake with them hot can cause a bit of pulse. Some brake cleaner and a scotchbrite pad corrects that. You basically scrum the bedding off of the rotor and start over.

Likewise when you are getting oddball where like that that, take the pads of and do a GOOD cleaning of a pistons/seals and bleed it out, that could be the cause of the bedding issue, a piston is just a little sticky and it allows the pad to lay on the rotor when stopped.
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2017, 6:45 am Thread Starter
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aight thx for the input guys!

most likely just a dirt issue and due to very worn pads....

Meanwhile I got a reply back from the mechanic.
Now he admits the pads are more worn...
But that it would be expensive if I'd change pads everytime they are at 60%... (implying my pads are at 60% LOL)
And warns me pads cost 300 USD at the shop...

So I replied asking if he had cheaper alternatives at the shop and also send him this link
https://www.carpimoto.it/en-FR/Bike_...or-1-disk-.htm

Same brembo brakes, even higher spec, road legal for 35 euro, so 70 euro for the front wheel. Thats about 80 USD.

I dont expect a positive respons tbh, but why not try huh.
And since I already removed the pads on the bike I could do this myself in the future and save myself some money.
Just need to be more prudent and mask the rims before reming the brakes of the disc....lol

Also gonna look for the right greas for those bolts mentioned above.

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2017, 6:55 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-riko View Post

I dont expect a positive respons tbh, but why not try huh.
And since I already removed the pads on the bike I could do this myself in the future and save myself some money.
Just need to be more prudent and mask the rims before reming the brakes of the disc....lol
Any aftermarket pad that fits is fine, SBS, EBC, Brembo, Carbon Lorain, Zycoo etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by E-riko View Post
Also gonna look for the right greas for those bolts mentioned above.
Any basic bearing grease works there. You don't need to get fancy.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2017, 7:09 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripped1 View Post
Any aftermarket pad that fits is fine, SBS, EBC, Brembo, Carbon Lorain, Zycoo etc.




Any basic bearing grease works there. You don't need to get fancy.
I was just asking about the right kind of grease, not the most fancy/expensive kind of grease.
Big difference, its about being correctly informed.
Since we're dealing about brakes...its about lives, since I am no dealer I wanna do it right if I'm gonna do it myself.


copper grease is no go, could seize the bolt
has to be grease that can endure high temps...

The service manual speaks bout Molybdenum disulfide grease

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2017, 10:30 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-riko View Post
But all of a sudden, this never happened before, I experienced vibration under hard braking!
Not a reliable feeling tbh....

Than I did some research on the net and found out it could be just dirty pads, worn pads, or even warped discs....
I hate to state the obvious, but the other thing that can cause a "vibration" during hard braking is the ABS system kicking in...

Personally, I've never had vibration due to dirty or worn pads. Vibration due to warped discs can, in my experience, be felt when you apply even light pressure to the brake lever. The feel of the vibration may change as the bike's speed changes. In most cases, warped discs will be accompanied by reduced brake effectiveness; you'll have to pull the lever harder to get the bike to stop.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2017, 3:03 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fubar929 View Post
I hate to state the obvious, but the other thing that can cause a "vibration" during hard braking is the ABS system kicking in...

Personally, I've never had vibration due to dirty or worn pads. Vibration due to warped discs can, in my experience, be felt when you apply even light pressure to the brake lever. The feel of the vibration may change as the bike's speed changes. In most cases, warped discs will be accompanied by reduced brake effectiveness; you'll have to pull the lever harder to get the bike to stop.
not that kind of constant vibration during the whole brake action...it feels mechanical somehow not like an electronic intervenience

dunno for sure untill I handle this step by step, first thing on the list, changing those worn brakepads + clean everything thoroughly.

I've heard that freeing the bobbins can also make a difference.

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